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A Response to ‘Women Against Feminism.’

Imagine this:

The year is 2014. You are a white Western woman. You wake up in the morning in a comfortably sized house or flat. You have a full or part-time job that enables you to pay your rent or mortgage. You have been to school and maybe even college or university as well. You can read and write and count. You own a car or have a driver’s licence. You have enough money in your own bank account to feed and clothe yourself. You have access to the Internet. You can vote. You have a boyfriend or girlfriend of your choosing, who you can also marry if you want to, and raise a family with. You walk down the street wearing whatever you feel like wearing. You can go to bars and clubs and sleep with whomever you want.

Your world is full of freedom and possibility.

Then you pick up a newspaper or go online. You read about angry women ranting about sexism and inequality. You see phrases like ‘rape-culture’ and ‘slut-shaming.’ You furrow your brow and think to yourself: ‘What are they so angry about? There is no such thing as sexism anymore.’

Now imagine this:

The year is 2013. You are a 25 year-old Pakistani woman. A few months ago, you married the man you love. A man you choose for yourself. You are also pregnant with his child. You see your life stretching out before you, filled with hope and happiness. Suddenly, you and your husband are dragged away from each other. You are both beaten with bricks and batons. You can’t fight back. You can’t escape. No one comes to help you. Through your fading vision, you look up, and look into the eyes of one of your assailants: into the eyes of your father.

The year is 2013. You are a 23 year-old Indian woman. You are a physiotherapy student with a promising career ahead of you. You are sitting on a private bus travelling home alone on a warm December evening. You gaze out of the window as the buildings of New Dheli rush past you and feel content. Suddenly, a blunt force hits the back of your head and you fall to the floor of the bus. A group of strange men are standing over you. They bring the metal bar down on you again and again and again until all you can taste is the blood filling up your mouth. You pray that you will die soon. And you do, but not then. You are raped, beaten, and tortured over and over again. Death is slow and agonising.

The year is 2014. You are a 13 year-old girl from Niger. You no longer live there though. You are now living in the neighbouring country Nigeria, sitting alone in small room on a small bed in a small apartment high above the city of Kano. You are not allowed to leave. Your stomach is swollen from the unwanted life growing inside of it. You had no choice. The father is a man in his 40s. He is a businessman. He has bought you as his wife. You were a penniless, uneducated girl when he came for you. You don’t know of any life you could have had. Neither did your family: just one less mouth for them to feed. You still have the body of a child, and it’s straining under the pressure from the one inside of you. You feel like you’re about to be split in two. You don’t wonder if you will survive the birth. A part of you doesn’t want to.

These are fictionalised accounts of real events that have happened to real women living in our world today. They follow the past 250 years of women and men campaigning for women to be given equal rights to men to prevent these kinds of injustices and abuses on the grounds of gender taking place. Over the course of this time, campaigners – Feminists, both female and male – have been locked up, beaten, tortured, and even killed, in the pursuit of equality. They did this with pen and ink and print; they did this with their voices; they did this with their bodies; they did this with art and music; they did in courts of law and halls and houses of government that they fought be to allowed into.

They did this so that women would no longer been seen as property, livestock, breeding machines, sex objects, punching bags, or infantile morons. They did this not just for themselves, but also for their daughters, and their daughters, and their daughters for generations to come. They did this for women they would never meet – women who lived across countries, across vast oceans, across the entire globe, and even across time.

They did this so that women like me – a white Western woman – could attend school and university; to learn to read, write, and think critically; to gain a degree; to get a job and be paid an equal salary to a man in the same position; and to sit here with my own computer and type all of this.

Feminism is a movement for freedom, equality, choice, love, compassion, respect, solidarity, and education. We may argue, we may disagree, we may struggle to understand the choices and perspectives of others sometimes, but these core beliefs of the movement have never changed, and they never will.

That is why I am a Feminist.

If you feel that you have so far lived your life unaffected by even the mildest form of sexism – anything from feeling uncomfortable when a man catcalls you in the street, to feeling scared walking home alone at night in a secluded area – and are treated with love and respect by every man in your life, then to you I say: I’m glad for you. If you don’t think you need feminism, then that is a victory for the movement. You have fulfilled all those dreams that every suffragette being force-fed in prison and every ‘witch’ burnt at the stake dreamed you would one day.

But perhaps take a second to consider the life of the Pakistani woman who was beaten to death by her own family for marrying a man of her choosing. Or the life of the Indian woman who was raped, beaten, and murdered on a bus by a gang of men. Or the life of the little girl in Niger who was sold to a man more than twice her own age and forced to carry a baby that may kill her to deliver. Do they still need feminism?

And perhaps take a second to consider this too: Even in our liberal, Western world, why do women still only fill 24% of senior management jobs? Why are more women than men domestically abused or even killed every week at the hands of their male partner or ex-partner? Why is there still a pay gap (in the UK specifically) of 15% for women doing the same jobs and working the same hours as men?

And what about on a cultural level? Have you ever noticed how comedy panel shows usually only have one female panellist compared to 4-5 male ones? That almost every dieting product on the market is solely aimed at women? How a lot of newspapers and advertising campaigns will use a sexualised or pornographic image of a woman to sell news or products that have nothing to do with sex?

Or perhaps on a personal level: Do you choose to wear certain clothes because you want to or because you feel ‘unfeminine’ if you don’t? Do you choose to cover yourself up because you want to or because you feel ashamed or intimidated by a man looking at your body? Do you shave your legs and underarm hair because you want to or because you will look ‘ugly’ if you don’t? Did you parents dress you in pink as a baby because they liked the colour or because you were born a girl? Do you want to have children because you want to or because you are a woman?

When you look at yourself in the mirror in the morning, do you see yourself through your own eyes, or through the eyes of the men that will look at you when you walk out the door?

The fact is, like it or not, you still live a world where gender matters. Where gender controls not just the entire course of your life – but the lives of women all over the world. Every second, a child will be born female in a country where she will persecuted for this random biological occurrence for the rest of her life. So before you hold up your anti-Feminist placard proudly and smile at your own sense of empowerment, think not what Feminism can do for you, but what it can do for that one girl. She needs someone to stand up for her. That someone could be you.

UPDATE: Click here to read my follow up to this article: ‘Equalism: The Feminist Alternative?’

This is a response to ‘Women Against Feminism’ groups on Tumblr and Facebook.

The stories of the women mentioned in this post were sourced from these sites:

http://feminist.org/blog/index.php/2014/05/29/pakistani-woman-stoned-to-death-for-marrying-a-man-of-her-own-choosing/

http://feminist.org/blog/index.php/2013/01/02/indias-tipping-point-death-of-rape-victim-sparks-global-outrage/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-27619295

Other facts and statistics were sourced from here:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/international-womens-day-2014-the-shocking-statistics-that-show-why-it-is-still-so-important-9177211.html

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  1. Clive Dorey

    If anyone really wants to take umbrage at some of this article’s content , you should read just a little about ISIS and then Mosel, Iraq and find out about the true worth of females in radical Islamic society !

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  2. sarahklum

    What do all these have in common?

    Muslim men doing violence against women.

    Feminist?

    Yet more on the true war on women

    A little about honor killings and head scarfs.

    The culture of rape

    Islams war on women the only real war on women.

    She says “I am not a feminist as today modern feminism is more about basing men than fighting for women’s rights. No I am a warrior and proud to be part of Naked Jihad/”

    She’s right modern (western) feminists are more concerned about free birth control which they view as a right. They are more concerned about political ideology than real womens suffrage.

    See her post here: http://aghostdancer.wordpress.com/2014/04/16/why-i-am-not-a-feminist-i-am-a-freedom-fighter/

    Good post but feminists of today are on the wrong path and that is why I too and not a feminist I am a freedom fighter.

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  3. And I’ll Remember

    Reblogged this on And I'll Remember and commented:
    Fantastic – a must read. Everyone should be a feminist – both men and women can be!

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  4. And I’ll Remember

    This is a fantastic piece. Thank you.

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  5. Aaron

    There are some excellent points made in this article; it is one of the few which I have read that acknowledges the disparity in treatment of women between Eastern and Western countries. The truth is that feminism is a progressive and modern movement that has, in itself, been subjugated to sexualisation, disinformation and exploitation; the very image of the “emancipated woman” which was seen throughout the ’30s and ’40s was practically designed by Edward Bernays to sell cigarettes. This image, however, has become a beacon of what can be achieved through feminism. I don’t believe that feminism needs to be so vehemently propagated in the west. Most of the goals that probably won’t be achieved within a century in the East have been constituents of Western society for twenty plus years. Given that feminism is a modern installation, it can be assumed that things will only improve from here on, each and every day. It doesn’t happen overnight, what would now be considered as sexist ideals have accounted for ALL of human history until a few decades ago. It is important for a feminist to acknowledge this and resolve to try to improve sexist culture (which exists mostly in the evil niche of society where murderers, rapists, burglars and drug dealers — the one percenters), through consideration and understanding instead of modern shock feminism that sees women tear their clothes off and line the streets for often confused reasons. Continue to fight the good fight, but don’t pretend to exist under constant patriarchal oppression. If one wishes to do so, direct one’s attention to the Middle-East or India where those problems actually exist. Things will surely be better within another decade in the west.

    Also, the statistic of women earning less for the same job anywhere in Europe has long been debunked, if a woman makes less than a man for the EXACT same work, she has every right within every democracy to sue her boss for everything (probably) he is worth.

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  6. dreamsanddementia

    Reblogged this on ilovethestrange and commented:
    This is very important.

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  7. Kalondu Muasa

    Glad that you recognise that feminism is not about nudity. What about the group femen who think nudity is a mark of feminism? The truth is, a big chunk of feminism is misguided. I fight for equality not because I think women and men are the same but because I believe women should not have to function as if they were men. Women should not swallow carcinogens so that they can be competitive at work, women should not kill their babies because career comes first before humanity. We can’t fight for feminism in isolation. There is poverty which is the underlying factor coupled with the broken social fabric as a result of colonialism among other things. We deal with the symptoms but we do not get to the root of the problem. We value prestige above humanity. Women are invaluable as they are nurturers, they do not get recognition for this. If you ask me, women do not value themselves, they just want the ‘prestigious’life of the male and have rejected their nature… That’s why I am a #womanagainstfeminsim

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  8. Abi Mcloughlin

    It saddens me deeply that people are construing and misconstruing a label and turning their backs on a hard fought struggle to push for a fairer world by ‘rejecting feminism’ . I don’t denegrate anyone’s choices, career, look, loves, lifestyle – from physicist to footballers wife, from veil to thong – a woman, as a man, should be free to think and choose for themselves. Feminism’s focus on promoting a society fairer to women is not ‘anti man’- it has been established at a time and place where white upperclassmen men have held absolute power for centuries, broadening it out globally, males have run the show to their own needs, aims, goals with the support of their women folk. To set this skew astraight feminism was born- a struggle that continues to be needed (albeit more nuanced than fighting for suffrage in the western world these days but globally that struggle continues and the challenges in the west are manifold – from wage differentials to sexual violence, from the potentially harmful pornification of our society- to infighting naval gazing nonsense as women reject the very idea of fairness for women in a gesture that to my mind throws out the baby with the bath water . Feminism is a global movement to enhance the lives of all – a fairer society will allow choices, will enable us all – make,female trans – to be a little freer from bias, persecution, inequality. Don’t tarnish the work, wisdom and need for feminism with amisunderstanding of it. Any woman who wants to be taken for more than chattel should be proud to call herself a feminist. As for responses to the well written article above that claim to seek to bring simplicity and common sense to the debate by pointing out that women diet more than men- well they haven’t thought it all the way through: why is that folk- why in our society do women feel the need to diet more, remove more body hair etc ? And the same people have made the point Sex sells – yes, primarily to men – but reducing a thinking breathing person to a look, a pout and a pair of pants is the wrong way to teach us all what we are worth ( men, women, trans). The same folk suggest women shave their legs to feel sexy- again I simply ask why? We are and have been culturally programmed -historically and currently in a world run by men to and for their tastes and needs. I’m a leg shaver- but I do it knowingly- it’s a choice because i still live in a society that promotes it… I just ask people to always ask themselves a question ‘why’ when they get didactic about anything- think, ladies, gents and trans folk out there – why do we do what we do- do the blokes do it too? Are we equal -not yet.

    So I say thank you suffragettes, thank you pioneers and brave folk who fight for equality. To those who want to stand apart from feminism- Please take a moment to reflect if you really are against what feminism actually means both in modern parlance and historically. I’m pro equality, pro humanism,pro feminisim not cos I like an ism but because human rights and fairness are just and good. It saddens me that people dismiss much needed ideals lightly or because the label feminism has been misconstrued. Someone calling the self a feminist has said something you don’t agree with about the trans community?Someone calling themselves a feminist has failed to stand firm on an issue only affecting women of colour? Someone calling themselves a feminist hates all men? These actions don’t mean feminism should be shunned, it means these people need to be seen as individuals whose views differ from yours. Have a debate with them engage! You don’t need to be their friend- but I would argue you should still stand up for women’s rights, freedom from oppression, dominance of one gender over another- be pro equality – and help to make this worl fairer :So much is still askew .

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  9. Scribblography

    I love your article.
    Women feel the gender bias everyday, and everywhere. Be it preparing lunch for the entire family before they set off to work, or do all the chores as soon as they are back home, or the sole responsibility of helping their kids with he homework when the husband finds innovative ways to relax after a tiring day at work, or getting stared at, or groped at, or being made ‘redundant’ (read fired) when they are in their maternity leave.
    People, men and women alike, everywhere round the world, have a long way to go in getting sensitive about the intrinsic differences as well as respecting them; while they honour the need for equitability.

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  10. Stefania Marangoni

    Yes! absolutely the response that we need to give to these young women, who can enjoy the life that they have, precisely because Feminists have long fought and continued to fight, and protest and argue, precisely for that freedom. Thank you for writing this.

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  11. lucybottomface

    I’d love it if feminism were no longer relevant in the West but with rape and domestic stats alone being as they are I cannot understand anyone who thinks we’re finished here. There are feminisms & feminists I strongly disagree with but that is not the same as the whole concept no longer being of use here. There is still a lot of work to do all over the world, including in Western nations.

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  12. Myriam

    I believe that we should aim at a world in which men and women are equal, but still not identical. I agree that men should not reign over women’s lives and that the examples from Nigeria, Pakistan and India are horrible. However, men and women will stay different, not only due to their culture but also genetically. I don’t think there is anything wrong with that. The feminist movement often denies those differences and therefore part of both men’s and women’s identities. Yes, there is a lot to gain but please fight for the Nigerian, Pakistan and Indian women and don’t exagerate or twist the “problems” in the Western world.

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  13. Darrell Messbarger

    Anyone who is fair minded knows that the inequality of women is very much a reality. Why? Cultural and historic associations with women being school teachers, nurses, but mostly homemakers and mothers are the fundamental foundations. Women, who are equal, must be treated as equals. Men should be teaching their daughters how to fix an automobile, do minor household repairs, and mow the yard, just as they should be teaching their sons to cook, do laundry, and clean up after themselves. Women must be prepared to challenge those cretins who would demean them with catcalls, and disgusting commentary. So women need to learn self-defense, or the use of weapons to protect themselves from the truly vicious thugs who exploit them. Women must be prepared to fill equivalent roles with men and as such expect the proper treatment, not because they want it, but because they deserve it. More women will join in the feminist family, once they KNOW they are every bit the equal of any man doing whatever they are doing. You must also be aware that feminism takes away the one great advantage from the women who feel it is their job to be a man’s possession, and those are the one’s who will be your greatest detractors and impediments to progress.

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  14. thedinnerexchangeeast

    Reblogged this on thedinnerexchangeeast and commented:
    An important reminder about why feminism matters

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  15. sarahklum

    “They did this so that women like me – a white Western woman – could attend school and university; ”

    Actually school for all children was a native american concept adopted by the settlers in america. All children boys and girls, rich and poor attended school long before feminism. Many women attended colleges even centuries before femenism but then like today they were the ones who could “afford” it.

    “to learn to read, write, and think critically; to gain a degree; ”

    Already covered this above. Even today if you can’t afford it you can;t get it. So today like 100 years ago the issue is cost not sex.

    “to get a job and be paid an equal salary to a man in the same position; ”

    Negotiate, negotiate, negotiate. Everything in accepting a job is negotiation is key to your salary I find most women are shy or quiet and just accept what is offered. I and my GF both said no to the first offer and countered. We both make considerably more because of it. She got an extra weeks vacation and 15,000 dollars as well as a performance bonus. Me I got more flexible hours and 5,000 more money.

    “and to sit here with my own computer and type all of this.”

    Women in the west have always been able to own property. Only in stone aged cultures like you named can men oppress women like that. Think about it in Afghanistan they shot a girl in the face for demanding an education. Everywhere you see a true war on women it is in a Muslim dominated area.

    here in the west I find I have more rights than a man. Think about it this way. if I hit a man the police come and admonish him for being a wimp. If I look at a guy at work and say looking good sexy he can’t get me fired for “sexual harassment” and probably wouldn’t go to HR he’d take the compliment. In a divorce I would get the kids, child support and alimony almost by default.

    The guys think of me and Michelle as pretty cool because they can say damn blue is certainly your color, ot that sweater looks great on you, or that hair color really brings out your eyes and we don’t get offended.

    Now was there a need for feminism? Yeah there still is but feminists today have lost sight of the real war. At one point we needed to show we are equal in all respects. That war is done here and it’s time to turn our eyes to help the oppressed. We also need to teach our daughters speak up for yourself because no one else will or should have to.

    Tech them to negotiate and speak up. Simple solution to the “wage gap”.

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  16. sandysousa

    If you’re so concerned with words like “policeman” or “ombudsman” and the fact that women’s bathroom signs have skirts on them, maybe you should change your own language and change “feminism” to “equalism” or something. Unless of course you believe women should have more rights than men… which is sometimes how it seems. I do not believe women and men are equal. I believe they should have equal rights but they should not be considered equal.
    Love, a realistic egalitarian.

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  17. Peach, Plum, Orange

    Reblogged this on Peach, Plum, Orange and commented:
    It frigthens me that in 2014 there exists a movement aimed at destroying feminism. What’s worse is that this movement is run by women. It slaps in the face of every feminist who has died for the rights now taken for granted by a generation of entitles, misinformed brats. And it sets my blood to boil.

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  18. Marjo

    So this post is about being rich first-world people vs being poor second or third-world people. Note that even a MALE person in a third-world country often (I would say almost always) doesn’t have access to the most fundamental rights, like education, health, food, water etc. Also note that feminists are almost always rich, first-world women, that embrace this feminist battle probably to feel better with themselves posting feminist documents like this on social networks, while carrying on with their problem-free lives described in the first part of this post.

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  19. Chloe

    An interesting and well-argued piece. For some, feminism is a derogatory term with individuals holding incorrect connotations about its purpose.
    Within social or critical psychology we come to understand what feminism means in the 21st century, and it does not just mean a fight for female equality. It actually now stands for emancipatory action for any and all minoritsed people, including men, racial groups, those with a minoritised sexual orientation, mental health issues and so on. Feminist research looks at the abuse of men, as well as what most think of as typical feminist plights. Simply, if you are of any group and feel unfairly minoritised, then what right has anyone to say that minoritisation is not real? Surely if a group of individuals feel repressed there ought to exist bodies and organisations willing to help them?
    I have certainly still experienced sexism in this modern Western world, when I have made a valid point only to be ignored by a man, and then for the same man to praise another man for making an IDENTICAL point to my own. I have been underestimated by most men I meet because I am a woman, with most assuming I am unintelligent. I have a First Class degree in a science, graduating top of my year (of 100+ students), and yet I still have to fight for people to recognise my ability, by getting past my gender. I am not against men, I have many male university friends, who, like my female friends, do not underestimate my abilities.

    Feminism, the NEW feminism, is very much needed and alive and well. Please do not fall in to the trap of believing it is only the fight for female equality, at the same time please also realise that we are still blind to the nuanced and very obvious sexism that still exists. I beg of everyone: please do not believe things are perfect, when this happens we will not evolve to become better human beings. I do not wish to offend or attack anyone; I would just like to provide a valid, educated argument supporting the need for feminist action for ALL types of minoritisation in the 21st century and beyond. Thank you.

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  20. Joe

    Very well written. I’m sure you wont anyway, but don’t listen to the people who have said that this article is over the top or too extreme, it’s not. You have made a very good point and made it very well in a very simple but not patronising way. Thank you.

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  21. tiryann

    all this shows is that you’ve misunderstood feminism. It is worse in other countries but that doesnt undermine the inequality here.

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  22. tiryann

    heres some comments you should read because your an idiot. http://www.buzzfeed.com/rossalynwarren/heres-how-one-feminist-responded-to-women-who-say-they-dont

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  23. Jacob Punke

    I can understand the statement being made here. I can applaud what she says, because that is true feminism. What I cannot applaud or agree with is the summation that, while not mentioned here, is mentioned in a large number of feminist groups, that the men are bad, that all men are bad.

    In the Muslim faith, it says a woman must cover herself in public, she must hide herself from men. The reason given is that men are animals, and cannot control themselves, so she must protect herself from them by hiding herself. This would sound like a great idea, but it leads to isolating the individual from those around them. It also makes a man feel that he has a ‘right’ to act that specific way around women, because they endorse it with their garb.

    If women, young ladies, girls and business women want to be treated the same, then stop acting like you should not be. Stop trying to point at the man and say he is treating me differently, of course he will treat you differently, he doesn’t want a lawsuit of sexual harassment filed against him, so he will not talk to you like ‘one of the guys’. He will not point at you and give you the tough jobs that give huge rewards, because those around him will say he is trying to get into your pants. He will not push for you to be promoted above others, because they will think the two of you are sleeping together and he is trying his best to keep you beside him at night.

    If you want to further change the world, the western one that we live in, and make it more equal for women, then you need to change society as a whole. You need to make people think that a man is willing to acknowledge that a woman can do as well as him without having any thoughts of sex involved in the decision. Once we as a society can move past that, then you show the world what true feminism is.

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  24. ertru

    As long as the ATTITUDE behind sexism exists, we need feminism.

    That attitude is the same in those countries as here.

    Creepshots, slutshaming, girls and womens fear of rape, and the sexist media is, just to name a few, reasons. That hidden attitude is so OBVIOUS it’s hard to change.

    That same attitude lies behind the inhumanous crimes in India, Africa etc.

    Here, we are pressured to expose our bodies, change our bodies (for other then health-reasons), in other countries they are forced to hide their bodies.

    It is like a coin – with two extreme sides, and the hardest task is to make it land and keep standing sideways.

    So many do not yet understand the actual meaning of the word feminism, as it itself has been shamed, it is a fight for all to be equal.

    Those “man haters”, according to the dictionary are in fact titled “female chauvinists”.
    That rabid hate is also a psychological reaction to all females downputting for centuries. It is not right, but I can understand it. Just as I can understand the hate many still might feel against “white” people, those with ancestors who were slaves.

    If theres one thing I dislike, it is desinformation.

    Even a golden cage is still a cage. We have the opportunity to change attitudes, so first we have to sweep our own porch. Get out of this golden pretty cage. THEN we can even MORE help the others out of theirs. It does not help to stop progress here. If we do so, we are locked in and cant even help ourselves.
    There are a lot of unwilling parts in the “game”, with fear of change, losing privileges. They spread the desinformation, and those dependent on them, spread it forwards. Infectious.

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  25. David

    This article wrongly assumes that all the WAF are white and “privileged” and then takes a situation where both a woman and a man are beaten for their choice and makes it out like the woman is the only victim. Pardon me if I can’t exactly take that seriously. Also, feminism is more than its definition so repeatedly parroting the definition doesn’t change the things it’s done that aren’t equality, and it certainly isn’t the only possible way to fight for women’s rights.

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  26. JD

    There are two “feminisms”. There’s the one that’s actually interested in basic rights for women, and then there’s the one that pretends that that’s what it is while actually advocating the opposite of equality at every turn. A lot of people are sick of the latter.

    Unfortunately, member of said latter refuse to let go of the illusion that they are still the former.

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  27. moonproject12

    If this is what Feminism stood for universally then I would 100% be behind it and call myself feminist through and through. This IS what feminism should be about. Sadly the phrase “feminist”, in modern times, has been hijacked by men-bashing girls, normally in their 20s or early 30s, who will jump on any bandwagon that is anti-man etc. etc.

    THIS IS KILLING THE BEAUTIFUL MOVEMENT THAT WAS AND SHOULD BE FEMINISM.

    I could go into a thousand examples, but I won’t because you all know what I am talking about. Feminism should exist to provide EQUALITY! Once again – EQUALITY – and I fully agree with this article, that equality for women, and indeed everyone around the world is a FEMINIST issue which is why everyone, both women AND men in the western world should consider themselves feminists and help deliver people from outrageous behaviour such as showcased by the stories in this article.

    But, sadly, and this is my point; feminism has been made a dirty word because of the fools who don’t seem to have any idea what it actually stands for. Feminism isn’t anti-man, it is anti-inequality. And THIS is why people of both sexes today are distancing themselves from feminism – because of the extremist, naive, men-bashing women who are ruining the name of feminism and its cause for everyone.

    We all need to stand together and fight for equality – so ladies, if we are to do this under the name of feminism, which I, as a man, would be thrilled to do – then help ensure that the name of feminism is not abused. Make sure feminism stands for what it is meant to and above all, STOP those who are abusing it and making it into a hate group for men from doing what they are doing.

    As this article suggests, let’s focus on the serious issues of inequality around the world and let’s do this by making the feminist movement something that people can proudly stand behind once more.

    So the greatest thing

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  28. djbanshee

    Lordtriggs,

    “As a species that is our sole goal. Men often are less receptive for the wanting of children because for men when they pass on their genes they lose purpose”.

    – I think you are overgeneralizing here, I have had a child and me and my partner both share the bringing up of a child and our incomes yet I know many couples who are very happy and certainly do not want a child, due to the expense and time and many want to focus on their career path or enjoy the freedom of not been a parent.

    Do you choose to cover yourself up because you want to or because you
    feel ashamed or intimidated by a man looking at your body?”

    I tend to dress for an occasion, but even now dressed casual (I’m a female DJ) you get men leering over you or trying to chat you up, or “oh YOUR the DJ” and I have had many places ignore me (even though I have 8yrs experience) and only employ male DJs. I get enough sleazy types when I’m out on my own as it is, if I dressed sexual then I would attract many men who really arn’t my type and if anything ever happened to me, ie rape then I’d be blamed due to the way I was dressed and “asking for it”.

    I also understand there is reverse sexism, especially when it comes to single fathers (who I have met) who get a raw deal or get attacked and are not taken seriously, violence and rape is wrong regardless of the gender of someone.

    I have often found to male DJs get paid more than me or get first chances. I have managed well overall and done many gigs in different cities, but so many places have overlooked me even though I have much experience in the area. It is especially bad in the rock scene where some are stuck in their ways.

    And Ben, there is women there with just the same sex drive as a man out there and vice versa. yet a man is called a “stud” and praised, a woman called a “whore” and looked down upon.

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  29. Haro

    The reason there is usually only one woman on a comedy panel show is that women aren’t funny

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  30. zeik

    I think I’d like this more if she’d put in vivid examples of the issues women face in Western countries upfront. She mentions a few stats later on but the stories at the start are more visceral and engaging. “Rape-culture” is a “Western” buzzword for example and an important issue.

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  31. nickrobcoach

    This debate is very interesting, because there clearly IS more to be done towards all kinds of gender-equality and yet many women are choosing not to identify with the label feminist.
    It reminds me a little of the responses men give for not being involved in issues that affect gender-inequality, which tend to be of two varieties: (a) “What for, I’m alright?” or (b) “Only a loser identifies with victims”.
    Perhaps people are sensing that defining themselves purely by their gender as a feminist (or a masculinist) is not the answer and that the issues that are now left for us to tackle at home (UK) and around the world need a humanist approach?

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  32. Livie

    I am neither for, nor against feminism, if that is the way they wish to express themselves then they are entitled to as that is what the sufferage movement fought so hard for 100 years ago. This article addresses not only the problems which women face abroad, problems which need to be tackled any way we can, but also issues women face at home in a so called ‘equal’ society such as the pay gap. For this reason I believe that this article achieves it’s purpose, to engage the attention of anyone reading it and making them realise that there is more we can do, and the world is far from being equal. If that makes me feminist then so be it but I believe in the right of choice.

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  33. Whatever

    Slut shaming? I see alot of “western white women” shaming. Get thefuckouttahere with that shit. I’m sorry but i won’t be shamed for taking care of MYself and MY family AND MY bills. Feminists problem is they always gotta divide and SHAME anyone who doesn’t fall in line with their extreme women vs men beliefs. I don’t think anyone owes me birth control pills. Per the feminists I must be an elitist white woman. On the same token I don’t think men should get free Viagra or that they should rape people (women, children, or other men) so wtf does that make me? Get off my back with this shit. I ain’t buying.

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  34. Jojolapin

    So only WHITE western women are “free”? An Indian woman or an African woman in London/NYC is less free?

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  35. JennG

    I think it is great what women have done for women in the past. I also think there are more ways in which it can be improved upon. However, your replies about another country and how they deal with issues of wrong doings when it comes to the treatment of women only infuriates so many of us even more. Be sad, go on some crusade if you like and post your agenda over there but do not attempt to make me feel bad for where I live and how well I have it. If I could actually care one ounce for other countries, then I am pretty sure I would not be staying here in the good ole USA and I would be over there joining their fight. In reality, what about the homeless, orphaned and abandoned people here in the US? Is it because the majority of these are males that you ignore them because they are not helping your fight to become some woman you are so blind to see that you already are? Do you not see that all the women before you made you who you are? And by that, I mean your mother, aunts, grandmas and all those cousins that were girls before you. They stayed at home, they raised their families and they were proud to do it. Or, on the flip side, they worked and supported their families on their own. See, you want to stand up for your rights but do not forget in the process, that it is okay that not everyone agrees with “your” way. I personally could care less about the feminist movement and at my ripe old age of 42, I can tell you being the middle generation, there are so many other reasons why. None of them mean anything to you or your “feminist” because all you want is for your rights to matter and not anyone else’s. See in the 1960’s when the majority of women stayed home and took care of their families and the husband worked, what was the divorce rate? What was the female suicide rate? What was the crime rate for teens? What was drug use per age groups? How many crimes did you hear about of a heinous nature? I mean you do your research so well right? Research some of these points and then when you are done, go on to the 70’s and 80’s and 90’s and now the 2000’s. Now with each one, add your feminist points and the changes made. Add the fact that families are now working more, divorcing more, and the mental health numbers are climbing so high, it makes my head actually hurt. Now, not all families can keep up with a single family income and so the mother does go to work. But, when a strong male role model was in the home as the main provider, the kids were happier, healthier (medically and mentally) and when the strong female role model was in the home for the nurturing, love, attention and anything else they needed to be, kids were also happier and healthier. So before you start saying what feminism has done for women, I want you to also see what feminism has done TO women!
    .
    I will sit here in my happy home, and I will honor the women AND men who fought for my right to vote, to have a say and speak my mind, to go to college and get my degree, and who continue to fight for my rights here in the US. Please do not forget all of the men that contributed to this as well. It was not just women fighting. These men are not feminists and I would pray for anyone who called them such. They were equalists in the truest form. They are like me, who believe in the equality of each other regardless of color and/or gender. Because honestly, if men were not where they are in society, neither would you be.

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  36. Heather

    When I was a teenager I thought of myself as a feminist. When I was a young woman I found out that I am far from it. I was a teenage mom, pregnant at 18 by a “boy”-not a man- that refused to acknowledge that I was even pregnant. When I looked for support from my feminist friends they all encouraged me to get an abortion. I am firmly pro choice, but the minute that I knew I was pregnant I was in love with my baby. I did not feel that abortion was the right choice for me. I was ridiculed and ostracized by these women. The very people that I thought would embrace me for making MY OWN choice and being in control of MY OWN body, told me that I was a shame to them, and that I was not really a feminist at all. Now as a grown woman, who is happily married and now with two children, I can say that I do not want any part of that kind of feminism. I always was taught that everyone was equal and that women fought for us to be able to make different choices,ones that are what we want not what we are told is right, not that women are better, and that we all have to make the same choices. I do not want to be a part of a movement that uses it’s ideals to shame and degrade other women for not conforming to what they think is right. I want equality for every woman no matter her choices, so that the women who fought for us in the past can be proud of the future that they helped create.

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  37. Laurel

    Very well said!
    And! “That almost every dieting product on the market is solely aimed at women?” Despite that fact that 67% of men (compared to 57% of women) are overweight.

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  38. I don’t need feminism because… oh. Wait. I do. | I was a high-school feminist

    […] One woman’s response to women against feminism. […]

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  39. R U Poed

    Reblogged this on R U Poed and commented:
    It’s a fight that never ends and one that many must start.

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  40. White Male

    Western Privilege?

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  41. Zodak

    wow the commenters really let you have it. hopefully feminists like you will stop calling people ignorant & just listen to what some people are saying

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  42. debbiross

    Reblogged this on Tea with Honey and commented:
    Awesome, awesome piece!

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  43. Heather

    I believe in fraternity and humanity. In a world where that was possible, we would not need Feminism. It is not about the individual needing feminism, it is about us all. I am happily married to my husband and am the major bread winner with a good job and education. I need a world where everyone has that possibly – male, female, gay, straight. Therefore, I need feminism. To be fair to the girls on the Facebook pages – they are really young – I don’t think they fully understand what it means, or how it has benefited them. Thanks for the article – I think it is important to respond and try to change the idea that feminism is about the ‘I’ to it being more about the ‘we’.

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  44. jj

    I’m glad the author has brought up the issue of violence against women in the 3rd world.
    Because this is a good example of how feminism can be potentially damaging.
    When a woman experiences violence in a 3rd world country, the feminist view assumes she experiences it because of her gender.
    In reality the cause of the violence could be of any number of reasons, political, economic, cultural etc.
    Here the woman has had her needs and wants stripped away by a feminist perspective.
    One of the reasons the women against feminism movement started, it believes feminism is short sighted.

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    1. Andrew

      yes, it could be immediately about any of those ‘other issues’: cultural, economic, etc. But what is the basis of those ‘other reasons?’ Is it not true that they are all based on gender inequality? For instance, if a woman experiences violence in a third world country, what is the likelihood that she will experience sexual violence as an aspect of it? Is the likelihood that a man would experience sexual violence the same? If a woman experiences violence for economic reasons, is that because as a woman she is more vulnerable and an easier target for that violence because those who commit that violence are less likely to be punished for it than if they committed violence against a man? It seems to me that your thinking in this answer is very limited to what you have been taught by society, and lacking in objectivity.

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  45. Natasha

    Feminism has become a bit of a dirty word, and feminists have been demonised. To admit you’re one is to be branded as butch, argumentative, ungrateful and pushy – who wants to be those things?

    I’m none of those things. I’m fun, happy, friendly, welcoming and a feminist. I want to have the same rate of pay, the same chances of a promotion.

    Read this article and tell me that sexism no longer exists…
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/columnists/article-124076/Why-I-believe-women-brigade-danger.html

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  46. Anonymous

    Those people need human rights, not feminism. It’s not the same thing, believe it or not.

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    1. Andrew

      Feminism is present as one aspect of the larger issue of human rights, just as racial/ethnic justice and gay rights are.

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  47. Denise [But First, Live!]

    Very, very well said!

    I’m actually saddened to know that those anti-feminism groups led by women even exist, and their “logic” behind it…. Whhhhhhaaaat???

    But to them, I wish they NEVER have to endure what other women around the world are currently enduring — from the violence, to the lack of freedom.

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    1. EqualityEd

      I’m saddened we are still treating privileged white women as a victim class because that white privilege combined with far greater sympathy from white men makes their victim posturing more powerful than the truly marginalized underclasses and minorities in our society.

      The only reason these Women of Color in other nations are being invoked is to protect white women’s victim status in the West. This kind of exploitation has gone on for a long time. The women in the West aren’t organizing on mass to aide women abroad. Their fixated on themselves and the extent to which women elsewhere are addressed it’s mainly for rhetorical purposes like this.

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      1. Traverse Davies

        You want to hear a neat piece of irony? My step mother is a feminist (my current step mother that is, my father’s fourth wife) and it goes a bit beyond that, she is the founder of feminism in a place that really needs it. She considers herself a feminist, but thinks that many of the attitudes and actions of feminists in the west are pathetic and stupid. She says that they don’t understand sexism at all, and she’s not wrong.

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      2. Traverse Davies

        One thing I forgot to mention about my step mother is that she really, really hates the term “of color”. She’s black, not a “Woman of colour” and would probably rip a strip off you for using that term.

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    2. Traverse Davies

      I think that their point is that western feminism is simply not helping women in other places, and that in the west feminism is no longer needed (whether you agree with them or not, it’s disingenuous to respond with things from countries where women obviously have things much worse than they do in the west).

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    3. Sammy

      What faulty logic are you referring too? Being against feminism often isn’t about being against the ideas that feminism supports or the problems they’re trying to solve. A lot of the time it’s simply disagreeing with how it goes about solving these problems, or it calls into question the actual effectiveness, or some people just disagree with the notion that we need to focus on one group, AKA women. 1 out of 10 rapes in the western world are against men, and even that statistic is probably a little fuzzy because men are a lot less likely to talk about it. “What you didn’t like it? What are you, gay?”. Yes, most rape is against women, but does that doesn’t make the supposed 10% less legitimate. It’s stuff like that. And other things, like domestic abuse against men not being taken seriously, men’s custody rights being ignored. Some people think singling out a particular set of issues doesn’t seem right, and can sometimes lead to men feeling like their problems are less legitimate. That is the logic behind it. I’m not claiming to know which side is right, but don’t just dismiss the logic of a group you don’t agree with without seriously taking into consideration all of it, and trying to challenge your current ideas of how things are to broaden your perspective on things. That’s what women against feminism are usually trying to communicate.

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  48. Jo

    I am a white western woman, with a postgraduate degree and a Mensa level IQ, but I was beaten by my father as a child and it still affects me very deeply today. Because I am ‘middle class’ people either didn’t see, or chose not to do anything because my father was a respected man in our community. Despite being quite self aware I have made bad choices where partners are concerned, because for a long time I didn’t understand that a man could be loving and respectful. Feminism is needed the world over, regardless of class or race. Domestic violence, domestic murder, equal pay, the objectification and subjugation of women are all issues in our society, so please please don’t try and make misplaced distinctions based on the idea that all women in your community are as lucky as you.

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    1. Sue

      Perfectly said.

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    2. Clare

      The author is only stating that some young, educated women don’t see the need for “feminism” — a response to an “anti-feminist” movement by women. As she states at the end, “If you feel that you have so far lived your life unaffected by even the mildest form of sexism… I’m glad for you.” If you read the entire piece she also states, “Feminism is a movement for freedom, equality, choice, love, compassion, respect, solidarity, and education.” We are all on the same team. So I believe you have misplaced your assumptions about how “lucky” the author is. After all, you have no idea who she is or why she is writing.

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    3. EqualityEd

      Why do you assume your beating should be filed under gender oppression rather than the abuse of children by their parents? Statistically it’s boys who are more likely to suffer this kind of physical abuse but a ideology like feminism will fixate on female victims at the expense of the male children.

      “Physical assault is widespread among adults
      in the United States: 51.9 percent of surveyed
      women and 66.4 percent of surveyed men
      said they were physically assaulted as a child
      by an adult caretaker and/or as an adult by
      any type of attacker. An estimated 1.9 million
      women and 3.2 million men are physically
      assaulted annually in the United States.”

      Click to access 183781.pdf

      This kind of favoritism and segregation of victims by their gender is seriously problematic especially in a culture where males face an uphill battle in being taken seriously as victims. These unending claims of “male privileged” from feminist tend to cover up the harsh realities of male life. It seeks to make ‘white women’ appear more threatened than ‘Black Men’ despite the women clearly being the far better off group. Even if we dropped the labels with most violence victims being male we should end up discussing their victimization more than we do.

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    4. Traverse Davies

      Domestic violence is simply not a gendered issue. I am a white western man with a postgraduate degree and a Mensa level IQ. My step mother used to lock me in a flooded basement on a regular basis, and my mother was neglectful on a level that would blow your mind. I wasn’t hit, but people that know my childhood are frequently astounded that I survived (and there were times that it was touch and go). I also made some very bad choices in relationships as an adult, and was married for six years to a woman who hit me (and no, I don’t mean a mild slap) on a regular basis. Domestic violence rates are similar for men and women, and one of the issues that some people have with feminism is a tendency to ignore male victims of DV as it doesn’t fit the popular narrative.

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    5. Markus-Raphael Schwarz

      It might be hard to believe, but I have already heard about white western men, with postgraduate degrees and Mensa level IQs, who were beaten by one of their parents as children and who are still affected by it very deeply today. Which movement can they join?

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    6. markxneil

      ” Despite being quite self aware I have made bad choices where partners are concerned, because for a long time I didn’t understand that a man could be loving and respectful. ”

      You claim to be self aware, but do you not see the bigotry in this statement? that you would project onto all men the acts of a single one? And was it feminism that showed you the errors of this mindset? Or did feminism encourage it?

      I’m curious… do you think boys aren’t beaten and abused? Do you think mothers are never abusive? Do you realize, once again, the bigotry in your statements, the present these issues as only issues women must deal with? The exclusion, the erasure of male victims and female perpetrators… you don’t think this, repeated over and over and over again, such as we see in your post, might turn people, women included, away from feminism? Especially those women who were abused by their mothers, perhaps seeing their fathers take abuse after abuse to protect them, never being able to leave for fear of losing his precious daughter and being unable to protect her… or women who were beaten by their mothers or fathers, but had a brother, older or younger, who would take the abuse in their stead, yet are told over and over again that it is them and ONLY them that matter? And then to be insulted and derided by FEMINISTs for daring to not buy into this women only mindset. Can you not see why it is your own actions as feminists that are turning these women away?

      For someone who claims a mensa IQ and to be self aware, you seem not to be blissfully unaware of your own behaviour and how it reflects to others.

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    7. M.

      Yes. Exactly this. Rape, domestic violence and domestic murder happens in all social classes and races. This article was offensive — it assumed the most egregious forms of misogyny is ‘elsewhere’, in a developing nation or in a different socioeconomic class. This thinking perpetuates stigma for many victims.

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    8. Chiquitita

      thank you!

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    9. donatoria

      Thank you Jo! This” Western ” white promotion is out of concept, stereotyping other nations and such offense when we all around the world know what is going on at famous ”west”. Imagine this ; white western girl, 22 years old from TX, was raped by couple coworkers , her implants were destroyed so the pectoral muscle, she was fighting for 6 years to get day at court , finally when that day came , the case was called ”frivolous” , she was called liar, perpetrators were let go free, the rape was called ”consent”..( Jamie Leigh Jones v KBR)

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    10. Peter

      I am a white western man, with a lesser degree in English, and an intelligence level which, despite my doubts and misgivings about reification and IQ testing in general, could fairly be referred to as “Mensa level.” I was beaten semi-daily by my father throughout my childhood. He was an Evangelical pastor and still is; quite a respected person. A week after receiving the document showing that he was ordained, he split my head open on the refrigerator. Having parents with extremely traditional values, my sister was never really even considered a candidate for the level of intensity with which I was beaten. I have not had a healthy adult relationship, whether a mere friendship or a romance, throughout my entire adult life. I’m filled with bitterness, hatred, anger, and a profoundly deep and black self-hatred and misery and a conviction that, even at 28, at bottom I’m still the “selfish, disrespectful, demon-possessed, shameful, lazy” worthless kid I was told I was while being whipped and smacked several times a week.

      I am fairly confident that I will never be able to integrate properly into the workforce, or have a truly fulfilled relationship, because of how psychologically and emotionally fucked up I am by this. I’ve been homeless for years at a time, unable to really deal with life. And I have no groups to turn to. No people either, really. 0.No Instagram solidarity. No “hang in there, girl” sentiments or posters or gifs or memes. Ever. Not one. Why? Because I’m a man. I’m meant to stick it out. Stand up. Move forward. Being crippled by past abuse? Not only does it not make anyone sympathize with me, to many, it makes me a “bitch.”

      I am attempting to illustrate that not only are there parallel experiences in the male community, there are “technicalities” and loopholes and gender-specific prejudices which can make these experiences WORSE for men, not the same, just as some experiences can be WORSE for women. One example of this is being beaten on a daily basis because you’re a boy who gets in fights on the playground, while your sister, who was far more comfortable with things like dishonesty, and manipulation, but never threw many punches, is never beaten at all.

      Of course there are women around the world who still need help, of course women are marginalized and abused around the world. But it is this kind of one-sidedness. This exact kind of attitude, the one that makes you capable of thinking that being beaten by your father is specifically a “feminist” issue, that made these women hold up the anti-feminism signs in the first place.

      We are expected to intellectually and emotionally engage with a hypothetical story about women suffering various forms of violence….which I did. But how many people will engage with mine? How many will even care, or read it? When was the last time you saw a story, like mine, published….anywhere? Your own human sympathy–does it even extend to me, knowing that at 28, I probably have bigger shoulders than you do, and stubble? Or am I another propagator of rape culture, whose history of abuse is meaningless,

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    11. darielianequa

      ^^^^^
      this is why I don’t need feminism

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    12. Meena

      I don’t think the intention was to generalize that all western women are lucky…instead of combing the article and really reaching for something to criticize, just pay attention to the message.

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    13. theevilhour

      Well, I was beaten by my mother as a child, so I guess I should hate women now?

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  49. Kristen

    Shocking reading the negative posts following this article at how naive some people are to the history of feminism. The author is trying in a short article to educate the “women against feminism” followers on only a small percent of an extremely complex subject – it was only a generation ago that women were not even “allowed” in pubs alone in western society without being suspected of being “easy”, not to mention my mothers generation that had three choices of career nurse, teach or be a receptionist as most families didn’t see the need to spend money to educate daughters. If the change has come so quickly in western society for our generation to forget the struggle for equality in the years before lets hope the struggle for equality in the countries where it is a life/death issue now comes along quickly for their daughters to forget or to remember and be proud of the changes achieved.

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    1. Traverse Davies

      I’m a couple of generations old, and this wasn’t true where I live in my lifespan. I have heard that it was true in Australia when I was a child… my mother frequently commented on how backward they were.

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  50. Kristen

    Shocking reading the posts following this article at how naive some people are to the history of feminism. The author is trying in a short article to educate the “women against feminism” followers on only a small percent of an extremely complex subject – it was only a generation ago that women were not even “allowed” in pubs alone in western society without being suspected of being “easy”, not to mention my mothers generation that had three choices of career nurse, teach or be a receptionist as most families didn’t see the need to spend money to educate daughters. If the change has come so quickly in western society for our generation to forget the struggle for equality in the years before lets hope the struggle for equality in the countries where it is a life/death issue now comes along quickly for their daughters to forget or to remember and be proud of the changes achieved.

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    1. gellatmeister

      Feminists today completely whitewash the racism in the movement, either that or they don’t know about it. Whilst the second wave feminists were pursuing the same job opportunities as their husbands, they wanted non-whites to do the housework whilst they were away. All for equality just as long there’s another group of people to trample over.

      Don’t criticise the women against feminism for disposing hundred years of history whilst ignoring parts of it yourself, feminism isn’t the pure and noble movement you lot claim it is.

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      1. Justin Caynon

        Let’s apply this logic to the racial equality movement of the sixties. By the way you’re thinking we should invalidate the entire movement of a people, because of some bad people.

        No movement or group is pure. You’re deflecting because the logic used in the argument the article makes is pretty factual.

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      2. gellatmeister

        Don’t think anyone today is standing on the shoulders of those ‘equalists’, claiming victory for what they did 50 years ago then use fallacious arguments about revoking their rights if they stand against it.

        This article is a massive guilt trip yet the author is doing nothing to combat those problems she brought up.

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      3. p0py@pu$$

        the white feminists who steal & derail the dialogue while silencing PoC, especially WoC and TWoC, do not define the movement itself by any stretch of the imagination. a growing number of feminists realize that the only feminism worth having has to truly be intersectional, and are working towards that.

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      4. gellatmeister

        Stop shoving the feminists you don’t like to the side and say ‘they’re not real feminists’. That’s part of the problem people have with feminism, you don’t do anything to deal with that.

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      5. Anonymous

        Of course the movement was racist. Look at the time period! But things have changed. So has the movement.

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      6. gellatmeister

        Yes, now it serves no purpose other than to cry sexism at frivolous things and deny its double-standard values.

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      7. shmitshmat

        This article never commented on past waves of feminism being completely positive, it merely states that the current wave of feminism shouldn’t be dismissed. The article clearly states that women shouldn’t dismiss feminism just because it doesn’t affect them directly, rather they should consider feminism because sexism still affects women all over the world of multiple races, i.e. equality for all.

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      8. helenalex

        I don’t think anyone is claiming that all feminists throughout history have been pure and noble. Feminists are like any other group of people – most are pretty flawed and some are awful, bigoted people. There have always been racist feminists, but that doesn’t mean that feminism is wrong or invalid, any more than the sexism of some civil rights / black liberation activists means that those movements are wrong or invalid. If you’re not willing to join a movement which has some bigoted members, you’ll never join any movement.

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      9. gellatmeister

        “Not all feminists” — Let’s do nothing to remedy the issues whilst convincing everyone that feminism is the perfect human ideology, try harder.

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      10. paul

        Yes. Exactly. I had this exact encounter with a self proclaimed feminist friend of mine. I am a chinese male. I said to her that I can totally empathise with the context of a patronising situation where somebody says” that’s because you’re a woman”. Every day people say to me such and such “oh well you’re asian”, etc. She said to me verbatim ” that’s not the same. Nobody’s racist against Asians. Nobody objectifies asains.”

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      11. Jmm

        This is actually inaccurate, as women’s rights and suffrage were only achieved through our participation in the Civil Rights Movement.

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      12. Bayard

        “Whilst the second wave feminists were pursuing the same job opportunities as their husbands, they wanted non-whites to do the housework whilst they were away”

        That’s a completely unfounded assertion and, in the main, untrue. Women who are going to work will have to find someone else to do the housework. Why should they care what colour that person’s skin is? Where are they going to find a dark-skinned person in rural England? They’re not. Their “daily” is going to be as white as they are.

        “All for equality just as long there’s another group of people to trample over.”

        Why is offering someone else unskilled work for a reasonable wage “trampling over” them?

        There are things wrong with the Feminist movement, but it really doesn’t help inventing more.

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      13. gellatmeister

        Unfounded assertions based on documented history, the civil rights movement wouldn’t have happened if no one cared about skin colour. Where are you going to find working-class people in rural England? Very few, if any, live in the countryside.

        Feminism isn’t about equality, otherwise it would have ceased to exist in the west a long time ago.

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      14. jhan1969

        Ideological feminism is a movement to push leftist statism in western culture. it has nothing to do with egalitarianism. If anything, it’s purpose is to make everyone an equal failure.

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      15. Johnny

        Feminism recognises its roots as a white, middle-class movement and has for decades sought to include and reflect the experiences of women of different class, race, orientation etc.

        You are defending wilful ignorance with more, distracting, wilful ignorance; if not knowing about something frightens you, please read up about it instead.

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      16. Scott Berry

        That’s a smokescreen. Yes, historically many groups treated people of other races poorly. This doesn’t mean you should single out feminists for it any more than you should single out schoolteachers or horse owners.

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      17. H

        > they wanted non-whites to do the housework whilst they were away

        And what about the husband, isn’t he complicit in this? Someone has to do the housework.
        That and everybody at that time was racist, including the men.

        > feminism isn’t the pure and noble movement you lot claim it is

        Yes, but white men and women were racist back then. Feminism is a movement that brings positive changes.

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      18. gellatmeister

        Oh yeah, feminists have only ever done good things ever and the ones who’ve been bad are not real feminists!

        Next.

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      19. Yoshi Johanna Anoschkin

        Well said.

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      20. Danielle

        That’s what bell hooks said 30 years ago. It’s not a new problem. Nobody said feminism was figured out or noble. The best we can do is build on what hooks and our other feminist leaders have brought to the table.

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      21. Chris

        Google “White Feather Feminists”. Yes, feminists wanted young men to sacrifice their lives so they could live in a free society.

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      22. mbstrawn

        “Whilst the second wave feminists were pursuing the same job opportunities as their husbands, they wanted non-whites to do the housework whilst they were away. All for equality just as long there’s another group of people to trample over.”

        What are you talking about?? House cleaners are not enslaved, for heavens sake. I am pretty sure they are happy to have the job!

        So what exactly do you suggest, Gellatmeister? In case you are unaware, there are millions of people in this world who do not have the opportunity for a college nor even high school education. Do you think it’s a good idea to let a housewife with a college education and motivation to work sit on her ass at home instead of provide good employment to someone who can truly do the work (most times better than the housewife) and who needs to support his or her family?

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      23. gellatmeister

        Where did I mention slavery? Typical feminist, misconstruing the point because that’s the only way you can respond.

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      24. Namitha Jassem

        There are specific issues of women, specific issues of people of colour, and specific issues of women of colour. The relationship between all these specificities is known as intersectionality. I assure you that feminists do not “whitewash the racism in the movement”. Many prominent feminists and feminist scholars are men and women of colour.

        Cleaning someone else’s house is not an ignoble job. Human society has evolved with specialisation of labour. A couple may decide to both do the housework and both work, or for one to stay at home, or for both to work and pay someone else to do the housework…how are any of those scenarios wrong? Women who want to work are not trampling ethnic communities by giving them honest, paying work. Of course there are always people who will take advantage of less empowered people. The answer to that is not insisting women do their own housework but by employment and immigration reform.

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      25. Nancy

        Yeah, those women who are now opposing feminism in those “I don’t need feminism” tumblrs and blogs are NOT doing so on grounds of intersectionality. Oh, and incidentally, not all the second wave feminists were white, uppermiddle class, privileged women. Okay? Quite a lot of us did not come from that background at all.

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      26. gellatmeister

        I know, they’re doing it on the hypocrisy and double standards of feminism, which I was pointing out.

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      27. Aj Hall

        As a matter of fact my mother was one of the women doing the housework for others and her feminism came out of wanting better for her daughters, including a world where women had equal access to educational and professional opportunities.

        Do you not believe working-class feminists ever existed?

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      28. gellatmeister

        No, I only believe in oppression of the privileged and elite.

        Don’t be stupid.

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      29. KM

        Interesting. You post virulently racist, Islamophobic comments when wanting to attack feminism elsewhere online, yet throw “racism” around when your attacks on feminism are better served by that approach. There are a lot of black feminists discussing intersectionality, and while I could not agree more that feminism needs to recognise that racism (and classism, too) is as pernicious and entrenched as misogyny, to blame the gender with almost no historical and vastly reduced comtemporary power for the power structures within that society is downright stupidity.

        Divide and rule may be a timeworn tactic. It’s not an invisible one.

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      30. gellatmeister

        I’m not sure you know what ‘Islamophobic’ means, it is a stupid word. You can criticise Christianity or Judaism without problem but when you criticise the religion of predominantly non-whites, it’s then considered “racist”. Sexism is rife in Islam if you didn’t know, it is addressed in this original blog post but since you lot are based in the west, you’re doing just as much as me and my cat to combat it.

        Black feminists’ biggest concern is racism, which institutionally present. Black men aren’t equal to their white counterparts, they don’t see their struggles are to do with gender. Feminists are blindly attached to that label, they’d rather not lose their ‘feminist’ tag than be seen egalitarian, it’s a sad state of affairs.

        History is history, it’s already happened. Stop thinking you’re owed one because of the way of life 5000 years ago in Greece.

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      31. Macy

        we are currently in the third wave of feminism (and have been since the early 2000s), which aims to encompass women of all races and sexualities. you need to educate yourself about TODAY.

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      32. gellatmeister

        You need to educate yourself on third wave feminism, they don’t know what they’re pursuing and because of that, individual ideas of what feminism is are conflicting and divisive. As a result, feminism has become its own worst enemy and the WAFs and MRA are fiddling whilst watching you lot burn.

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      33. pj

        That may be true, but the force of women together on the planet is greater than any other; let’s see what we can do now.

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      34. gellatmeister

        A revolt against each other?

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      35. Margo Duncan

        What hole did you crawl out of???? Who had ANYONE cleaning their houses while they went to work, let alone NON-WHITES??? Gee, you don’t assume MUCH, DO YOU??? You are either completely insane or a guy PO’d that the world doesn’t owe you a living since those nasty women took over your job. You are really sick, seriously. And you have ZERO EVIDENCE for the nonsense you spew. I know becuase my mother had to work TWO JOBS to put a roof over our heads despite being a law school graduate because no law firm would give her a job as an associate because she had kids. My mother STILL cleaned our house herself with an assist from ME. YOU ARE MENTALLY DISTURBED AND A LIAR.

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      36. gellatmeister

        Talk about straw man… I control my own destiny and don’t think the world owes me anything, I’m not a feminist who thinks the world should fall at their feet.

        Read the works of bell hooks before going round spouting ‘ZERO EVIDENCE’ for something you didn’t encounter, it seems like you have a very bad retaliation complex.

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      37. Dani

        I like your reminder to remember that a LOT of white feminists messed up, and that we need to fix those things. But please keep in mind that instead of implying that feminism as a WHOLE is bad because of SOME feminists, remind feminists that they can do good by remembering ALL races in their quest for gender equality.

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      38. gellatmeister

        Ah, the ‘not all feminists are like that’/’those are not real feminists’ fallacy. You admit how bad feminism but you “good guys” don’t bother addressing those problems and instead, brush it under the carpet. Feminists will be feminists, eh?

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      39. Tejanarusa (@Tejanarusa)

        Not really true. Oh, it was mostly white women, but we did include women of color and wanted the movement to spread. There are many complex reasons why that was not as successful as it should have been.
        Many women of color that I knew in the early ’70’s felt that their first loyalty was to the Civil Rights Movement – and it was quite true that that movement was far from complete. I was often told that working for women’s rights would have to wait until there were equal rights for African-American men.
        All of the movements suffered great setbacks by the assassinations in the late sixties, and the increase of resources, human, monetary and resources, being put into the war in Vietnam.
        This is an extremely simplified explanation; but if you get hold of feminist newspapers and magazines (print was still quite important then) from the late sixties and early seventies, you will see the work of Black feminists as well as white; you will see discusssions of the need to bring in everyone, of all classes and races.

        Yes, I was there, at very nearly the beginning. I am of the generation that was told flat out, “You cannot be a doctor, you’re a girl! Women can’t be doctors/scientists/engineers/lawyers/reporters/Editors-in-Chief/company presidents, etc., etc., etc.” Even though I knew women who were doing professional jobs, you wouldn’t believe how many older folks thought it was patently obvious that “women can’t do/be xxx.”
        We’ll take just a small example or two: Ever hear of Alice Walker, author of “The Color Purple?” I first saw her byline in Ms. Magazine around 1971 or 72. Do you know of Gayl Jones, author of “Corregidora?” Also Ms. Magazine, early ’70’s.
        Some of y’all criticizing the movement are really criticizing the image of the movement created by mass media, who loved to make fun of women activistis, and distorted the picture for many women, who then decided they were not feminists.
        Please educate yourself some more, as well. Nobody ever wanted feminism to be a whites only/middle-class only movement, and it never really was.

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      40. gellatmeister

        Nah, we’re laughing at the image of feminism they have painted themselves, not the caricature drawn by the media. Open your eyes, scroll through Tumblr and feminist blogs on left-aligned news articles, you will see how ridiculous feminism is.

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      41. Marty

        Your ignorance is palpable. “Feminism is a movement for freedom, equality, choice, love, compassion, respect, solidarity, and education.” “we may struggle to understand the choices and perspectives of others sometimes, but these core beliefs of the movement have never changed, and they never will.” That is the key part of this essay. Freedom, equality, choice, love, compassion, respect, solidarity, and education. These are truly and 100% good qualities. The goal of feminism is to foster these attitudes toward everyone. While it is true that feminism has not always succeeded, and indeed the whole purpose of the beginning of this essay is to prove that it has still not succeeded, that is not an indict of the actual movement itself, not its efficacy. Don’t be ignorant enough to reject the movement on face simply because it hasn’t yet resolved all structural oppression ever. If anything that should encourage you to work harder. If you want to talk about waves of feminism then look to the third wave of feminism (which is where we are today. If you are going to critique the movement the least you could do is to critique the one that this essay is actually talking about). The third wave of feminism is all about post-modernism and how we should look beyond the image of the “woman” in favor of an intersectional approach in an attempt to resolve the issue that you have raised.

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      42. gellatmeister

        Maybe you can address the naivety of being attached to the label and not the cause.

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      43. Juedne

        What BS. On what do you base your sweeping claims? Working women (and men) often need help at home if they have demanding jobs. If they can afford to pay someone to do housework, they give others an opportunity to make money. How is that trampling on anyone? They have no control over who comes forward to take the work, they could be any race. So faced with a choice of cleaners from different cultures, what would be your great suggestion? Should they employ only whites? Having both cleaned houses (as a student), and employed people do it for me (as a career woman), I have been both grateful to have the work and grateful to have people doing the work for me, who are in turn glad of the money just as I once was. Please tell me precisely where the ‘trampling’ – and your implied racism – is in that.

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      44. gellatmeister

        Why aren’t the non-whites seen as equals? Why do they have to clean the dirt of white people? I’ve pretty much answered you in my original post, whitewashing racism and having the audacity to criticise those who bring it up. That’s why no one likes feminism, you can’t accept responsibility and look for someone else to blame.

        Try reading ‘Feminist Theory: From Margin to Center’ by bell hooks, a black woman’s first-hand account of the second wave movement.

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    2. EqualityEd

      “it was only a generation ago that women were not even “allowed” in pubs alone in western society without being suspected of being “easy””

      Seriously? This is your oppression?
      If we are talking about pub culture the drunken antics of young women these days rival that of men. Perhaps now a days people think everyone is easy so it makes no difference.

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2695357/Tawdry-scene-outside-nightclub-causes-new-outrage-Female-clubbers-Belfast-car-park-pictured-astride-men-revulsion-Magaluf-debauchery.html

      “not to mention my mothers generation that had three choices of career nurse, teach or be a receptionist as most families didn’t see the need to spend money to educate daughters.”

      Your mother’s generation is the same one Margret Thatcher came out of. You put forth a misleading presentation of what women COULD do versus what they tended to do. Most men were going to end up supporting a women. Now the same thing happens but men are far less likely to be living in the same home as their children. The UK is dealing with a fatherless home crisis.

      “One in five children from a broken home loses touch with a parent within three years and never sees them again, it is revealed today.

      Many more lose contact as they grow older, most often with fathers after mothers are awarded custody.

      Families minister Maria Miller described the scale of family breakdown as a ‘tragedy’, saying urgent reforms are needed to ensure children maintain relationships with both parents.”

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1346603/Britains-fatherless-families-1-5-children-lose-touch-parent.html#ixzz38wnjcTyY

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