A Response to ‘Women Against Feminism.’

Imagine this:

The year is 2014. You are a white Western woman. You wake up in the morning in a comfortably sized house or flat. You have a full or part-time job that enables you to pay your rent or mortgage. You have been to school and maybe even college or university as well. You can read and write and count. You own a car or have a driver’s licence. You have enough money in your own bank account to feed and clothe yourself. You have access to the Internet. You can vote. You have a boyfriend or girlfriend of your choosing, who you can also marry if you want to, and raise a family with. You walk down the street wearing whatever you feel like wearing. You can go to bars and clubs and sleep with whomever you want.

Your world is full of freedom and possibility.

Then you pick up a newspaper or go online. You read about angry women ranting about sexism and inequality. You see phrases like ‘rape-culture’ and ‘slut-shaming.’ You furrow your brow and think to yourself: ‘What are they so angry about? There is no such thing as sexism anymore.’

Now imagine this:

The year is 2013. You are a 25 year-old Pakistani woman. A few months ago, you married the man you love. A man you choose for yourself. You are also pregnant with his child. You see your life stretching out before you, filled with hope and happiness. Suddenly, you and your husband are dragged away from each other. You are both beaten with bricks and batons. You can’t fight back. You can’t escape. No one comes to help you. Through your fading vision, you look up, and look into the eyes of one of your assailants: into the eyes of your father.

The year is 2013. You are a 23 year-old Indian woman. You are a physiotherapy student with a promising career ahead of you. You are sitting on a private bus travelling home alone on a warm December evening. You gaze out of the window as the buildings of New Dheli rush past you and feel content. Suddenly, a blunt force hits the back of your head and you fall to the floor of the bus. A group of strange men are standing over you. They bring the metal bar down on you again and again and again until all you can taste is the blood filling up your mouth. You pray that you will die soon. And you do, but not then. You are raped, beaten, and tortured over and over again. Death is slow and agonising.

The year is 2014. You are a 13 year-old girl from Niger. You no longer live there though. You are now living in the neighbouring country Nigeria, sitting alone in small room on a small bed in a small apartment high above the city of Kano. You are not allowed to leave. Your stomach is swollen from the unwanted life growing inside of it. You had no choice. The father is a man in his 40s. He is a businessman. He has bought you as his wife. You were a penniless, uneducated girl when he came for you. You don’t know of any life you could have had. Neither did your family: just one less mouth for them to feed. You still have the body of a child, and it’s straining under the pressure from the one inside of you. You feel like you’re about to be split in two. You don’t wonder if you will survive the birth. A part of you doesn’t want to.

These are fictionalised accounts of real events that have happened to real women living in our world today. They follow the past 250 years of women and men campaigning for women to be given equal rights to men to prevent these kinds of injustices and abuses on the grounds of gender taking place. Over the course of this time, campaigners – Feminists, both female and male – have been locked up, beaten, tortured, and even killed, in the pursuit of equality. They did this with pen and ink and print; they did this with their voices; they did this with their bodies; they did this with art and music; they did in courts of law and halls and houses of government that they fought be to allowed into.

They did this so that women would no longer been seen as property, livestock, breeding machines, sex objects, punching bags, or infantile morons. They did this not just for themselves, but also for their daughters, and their daughters, and their daughters for generations to come. They did this for women they would never meet – women who lived across countries, across vast oceans, across the entire globe, and even across time.

They did this so that women like me – a white Western woman – could attend school and university; to learn to read, write, and think critically; to gain a degree; to get a job and be paid an equal salary to a man in the same position; and to sit here with my own computer and type all of this.

Feminism is a movement for freedom, equality, choice, love, compassion, respect, solidarity, and education. We may argue, we may disagree, we may struggle to understand the choices and perspectives of others sometimes, but these core beliefs of the movement have never changed, and they never will.

That is why I am a Feminist.

If you feel that you have so far lived your life unaffected by even the mildest form of sexism – anything from feeling uncomfortable when a man catcalls you in the street, to feeling scared walking home alone at night in a secluded area – and are treated with love and respect by every man in your life, then to you I say: I’m glad for you. If you don’t think you need feminism, then that is a victory for the movement. You have fulfilled all those dreams that every suffragette being force-fed in prison and every ‘witch’ burnt at the stake dreamed you would one day.

But perhaps take a second to consider the life of the Pakistani woman who was beaten to death by her own family for marrying a man of her choosing. Or the life of the Indian woman who was raped, beaten, and murdered on a bus by a gang of men. Or the life of the little girl in Niger who was sold to a man more than twice her own age and forced to carry a baby that may kill her to deliver. Do they still need feminism?

And perhaps take a second to consider this too: Even in our liberal, Western world, why do women still only fill 24% of senior management jobs? Why are more women than men domestically abused or even killed every week at the hands of their male partner or ex-partner? Why is there still a pay gap (in the UK specifically) of 15% for women doing the same jobs and working the same hours as men?

And what about on a cultural level? Have you ever noticed how comedy panel shows usually only have one female panellist compared to 4-5 male ones? That almost every dieting product on the market is solely aimed at women? How a lot of newspapers and advertising campaigns will use a sexualised or pornographic image of a woman to sell news or products that have nothing to do with sex?

Or perhaps on a personal level: Do you choose to wear certain clothes because you want to or because you feel ‘unfeminine’ if you don’t? Do you choose to cover yourself up because you want to or because you feel ashamed or intimidated by a man looking at your body? Do you shave your legs and underarm hair because you want to or because you will look ‘ugly’ if you don’t? Did you parents dress you in pink as a baby because they liked the colour or because you were born a girl? Do you want to have children because you want to or because you are a woman?

When you look at yourself in the mirror in the morning, do you see yourself through your own eyes, or through the eyes of the men that will look at you when you walk out the door?

The fact is, like it or not, you still live a world where gender matters. Where gender controls not just the entire course of your life – but the lives of women all over the world. Every second, a child will be born female in a country where she will persecuted for this random biological occurrence for the rest of her life. So before you hold up your anti-Feminist placard proudly and smile at your own sense of empowerment, think not what Feminism can do for you, but what it can do for that one girl. She needs someone to stand up for her. That someone could be you.

UPDATE: Click here to read my follow up to this article: ‘Equalism: The Feminist Alternative?’


This is a response to ‘Women Against Feminism’ groups on Tumblr and Facebook.

The stories of the women mentioned in this post were sourced from these sites:

http://feminist.org/blog/index.php/2014/05/29/pakistani-woman-stoned-to-death-for-marrying-a-man-of-her-own-choosing/

http://feminist.org/blog/index.php/2013/01/02/indias-tipping-point-death-of-rape-victim-sparks-global-outrage/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-27619295

Other facts and statistics were sourced from here:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/international-womens-day-2014-the-shocking-statistics-that-show-why-it-is-still-so-important-9177211.html

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  1. Lola Swift

    I am not against feminism by any stretch however, I don’t feel this article is that great a response to those who are. It seems to miss out how far behind the western world still is. In 2013, 18915 cases of sexual abuse to children under 16 were reported in England and Wales alone.
    in 1996 a 12 year old girl walked back home knowing it was almost dinner time, due to the summer weather she was in shorts and a t-shirt, she was dragged in to the bushes and raped. This happened in England. It may have been 8 years ago but I know it still goes on today.
    And now at the age of 20? The clothes I wear? I choose to wear trousers not because of the fear that men will stare but that other women will judge and I want to have children in fact my dream is to be a housewife and stay at home mum and I know plenty of women my age that have that exact dream, I also know plenty that want a career and the last thing they are thinking of is having a family. I will happily support them but they have to support our choice too.
    So, do I support feminism? Yes. However, I also support men being equal too. I know men that want to be stay at home dads but are too ashamed to tell most women that because they feel that the women won’t see them as ‘real men’. So, maybe instead of simply supporting feminism we should support equal opportunities. We should all be given the same opportunities, women and men are naturally better at different things, so instead of striving to be the same, we should strive to bring the best out in each other.

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    1. autumn

      Well said. I had similar thoughts to many of her points. Even complaining that your mother dressed you in pink. So? She dressed you’re brother in blue too. Not because blue is a better color or due to sexism, but because it was an easy way to tell two bald kids apart when a stranger wants to comment about your baby

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    2. TJ

      Your comment that you support feminism but also want equality for men is a little incorrect. Feminism (despite a name which leads you to think otherwise) is about equality of the sexes, not just women’s rights. Don’t let the name fool you, all your comments about men needing to feel like the “real man” stereotype are still feminist issues despite being about men.

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    3. Luna Blue

      “Feminism is a movement for freedom, Equality, choice, love, compassion, respect, solidarity, and education.” That includes all people/genders, not just women. And its not about striving to be the same, its about honoring one another’s uniqueness and wholeness and doing away with bullshit gender roles, stereotypes, oppression,, objectifying and stigmatizing media, patriarchy, abuse, rape, killing etc. To make the world a safer, more loving place for Everyone.

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    4. Benjamin89

      Way to miss the point. Feminism is about equality. You’re blaming feminism for what the patriarchy/patriarchal society does. A feminist wouldn’t thing his or her husband was any less of a man for wanting to be a stay-at-home-dad. Why would anyone have a problem with a stay-at-home-dad? Because that’s a role that traditionally was forced on women, and patriarchal/mainstream culture says that being a woman is bad/inferior to being a man. Lay the blame where it is due. Feminism is about giving everyone an equal chance. MRAs have it wrong, it’s not about degrading men. The irony is that what MRAs fear the most is being treated the way they treat women.

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      1. Traverse Davies

        I’m an MRA… not because I fear being treated the way I treat women (I treat women as people) but because I was the victim of domestic abuse at the hands of a woman and saw first hand how that was treated, especially in feminist circles. I was raised feminist, and truly, truly believed things like that women never lied about being sexually assaulted, until I saw evidence of it with my own eyes, when a friend lied to me about someone else (I believed her at the time, unfortunately for the guy she accused). I’m an MRA because I don’t want to be told that my masculinity is wrong, that I am wrong for simply being what I am.

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    5. helenalex

      Yes, I think a major weakness of the original post (great though it is!) is that it focusses solely on non-western countries, which sort of implies that there is no need for feminism in the first world.

      In terms of men being equal, that’s what feminism is all about! Men and women being equal, and each doing whatever works for them, not what society says their gender should want or be good at, whether that’s men being stay-at-home dads, or women being motor mechanics.

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    6. Cat

      I agree with a lot of what you said. However, you do seem to think, alongside the author of this article, that feminism is merely the fight for women’s equality. But, equal entails both parties and feminists and men are not mutually exclusive.

      The word FEMinism often invokes a wrong sense of only including the female gender. However, though it was originally a movement for women, feminism now includes the rights of men, who are being sexually objectified more and more by the media as well as being typecast into “masculine” roles by television (unless the character is gay). So yes, men should definitely be able to cry without shame or be a stay-at-home dad, or be comfortable in their sexuality without having to create a false sense of male bravado. Though it’s a smaller aspect of feminism (because realistically women struggle with these issues on a larger scale than men), male equality is also a part of the movement, which unfortunately gets undermined sometimes by people who have skewed the word “Feminism” into a man-hating context.

      So, I agree with basically everything you say, I just wanted to point out that for me, as a feminist, I believe that we have to look at all aspects of the problems both women and men face today. At the end of the day what’s so sad is that many men immediately go on the defensive when it comes to feminism because they think it’s a personal attack on them while women immediately play up the victim mentality, creating a sense of opposing teams. But if explained properly, we can easily see that Feminism supports equal rights regardless of gender so actually we’re all on the same side.

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      1. Traverse Davies

        I appreciate what you say here, but look at feminism as a practice, and see if that practice tends to match the ideal of equality. Also, as a woman can you really fully understand the issues that I face as a man? You might be blind to a lot of issues, simply because they don’t affect you. Perhaps, as much as most feminists dislike us, listening to what the MRM says about what our issues are might be worth doing. If enforced gender roles are really, really low on our list of complaints perhaps they aren’t where the focus should be for example.

        Having said that, most people in the western world are pro equality. It’s more a question of what equality looks like and how to get there that causes friction.

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    7. Rita

      The point of feminism is not to make women more equal than men. It is not to say that women must be career women and not stay at home moms. Feminism is not to make men feel like less of a man for wanting to be a stay at home dad, or do any other “typically female” roles. The point of feminsim is exactly this. To make all these choices valid for any one who wants them, Women should be able to be stay at home moms, or career women, or both if they choose, as should men. The definition of feminism, as in the websters dictionary, is ” the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities” no where does it state that women are more equal or should only be seen to be career women or whatever.
      Unfortunatly, alot of people, men and women alike, tend to forget this and bring things to extremes, as you just did in a less extreme way.

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    8. Katie

      Feminism actually encompasses all of those beliefs! It’s about both genders having equal opportunities and rights. The genders roles and stereotypes feminism looks to change hurt men too.

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    9. Sarah

      What you describe in your final paragraph *is* feminism….. You can’t fight for equal rights where only one of the sides is equal, these benefits to men are inter-related with changing the way society views and treats women. I think the concept that feminism is for “treating women better than men” is a construct and does not make sense if considered carefully. Feminism makes for a healthy society for all.

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    10. Sammy

      You are awesome! I completely agree

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    11. Kristine

      The very definition of feminism calls for women’s rights to be EQUAL to men’s. So if you think we should be equal, then you complete agree with feminism.

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      1. Traverse Davies

        That depends on the version of feminism you subscribe to. That’s part of the issue right now. For example, patriarchy theory is an issue for many anti-feminists, while many feminists don’t even know what it is. Intersectionality is also an issue, not so much in its concept, but in the fact that most who use it in arguments simply don’t begin to understand it or the implications. In the end of course it has the issue of looking at things monolithically. I have white privilege because I am white, and it doesn’t actually matter that I grew up in predominantly black neighbourhoods (and at one point in a predominantly black country where being white was enough to get you shot at from time to time) and that I was often beaten as a result of my skin colour, I still grew up with white privilege. It doesn’t matter that I grew up in radfem hippie communes quite frequently, being male still gave me privilege (the privilege of hearing my entire life how men are useless). Sorry, guess I still harbour some bitterness. If you don’t know what intersectionality is, or what patriarchy theory is, or what check your privilege is or why some people support the statement “die cis scum” then perhaps you are looking at this from a position of ignorance, and the people you are criticizing actually have a better grasp of the issues than you do.

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    12. Steph

      Feminism is about equality. Stay at home dads and such need support too, yes, but think about what the notion of not being “real men” for staying at home insinuates. This is said to them because our culture perceives being a stay-at-home-parent as a traditionally feminine role, which is what feminism is trying to fight. There should be no discrimination based on traditionally-feminine or traditionally-masculine roles, only equal opportunities for both sexes….. that’s kind of the point of feminism. Not superiority of women over men, equality. If the preconception that a stay-at-home-parent should be female did not exist, then stay-at-home-dads would not be discriminated against for the role. Therefore, they can actually benefit from what many feminists are trying to accomplish. … And why is it that calling a man a “woman” or comparing them to anything feminine is a grave insult in the first place? Because the culture perceives us as less than men.

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      1. Traverse Davies

        What do you think my girlfriend would do if I referred to her as “manly”? Do you think she would take that as a compliment?

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    13. Kate

      Hey, as long as it’s your choice to stay at home with the kids then more power to you. My bff is a high power attorney and her husband is stay at home dad, it’s only until we get more men who are brave enough to say “I don’t care what society says this is what I want to do…” that it will get more common. In my opinion Feminism is not about women being better than men, it’s about women being equal to men and wanting both sides to be on a fair playing field.

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    14. Ann

      You’re completely right when you say that men are affected by sexism too. However, feminism is the remedy to this, not the problem. Men feeling ashamed to voice hopes and desires normally ascribed to women is a symptom of exactly the same sexism and misogyny that affects women. Feminism is about gaining equal opportunities with a focus on gender, there is no distinction between the two. Please read a little about modern feminism before deciding what it is and isn’t about. You might also want to read about the role of power – discrimination alone does not constitute sexism.

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      1. Traverse Davies

        “discrimination alone does not constitute sexism.”
        Just no. Look, the whole prejudice + power = sexism is an academic concept, and in an academic setting it might make sense to make that distinction, but the lay meaning of sexism is to discriminate based on sex. Nothing else is needed for a lay discussion, and so to start making that distinction is stupid.

        It also presupposes something that is inherently wrong, the idea that women don’t wield any form of institutional power. Clearly in the modern west they do. They wield immense amounts of institutional power, often more than the males in their life. In a mutual domestic assault (both partners hit each other) the man is far, far more likely to be arrested, charged, and sent to jail. That is the very definition of institutional power, the institution provides you with protection over someone else.

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    15. Cato Younger

      Lola, are women the only people in the world who have other people judge their dress or how they act? Do you not think that all people have some constraints on them, either by family or society that they’d rather not have? My problem with modern feminism is just in how insular, out of touch, and self-absorbed its adherents are. You sound more like a truculent teenage girl mad at her parents than a grown woman. You’re created some kind of utopia in your mind for yourself and have the arrogance to think the world should bend to your will regardless of what other people think. Yes, the world can be changed, but by lots of people working together, not because a bunch of extremely self-absorbed women want free birth control or to never ever have anyone be able criticize them in the slightest for any reason. Its time to grow up.

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    16. Danielle

      Lola, you just described feminism. You are a feminist, you just don’t like the word. Own it and love it.

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      1. Traverse Davies

        Why does she have to? What if what she has seen of feminism doesn’t match that, and so she would rather not use that word? Did you know that once upon a time pie was rarely a sweet dessert, and was mostly a meal food? That meat pies were more common, and as such were rarely referred to as meat pies, but by the simpler term pie? Now, as dessert pie became more popular pie began to mean sweet pies, and now you always point out when you are talking about a meal pie, since the meaning of the word changed due to how it was actually used.

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    17. SB

      You imply in your response that feminism strives for supeiority over men but that is exactly what it doesn’t do. I’m not an expert on feminism but feminism to me means recognising that many aspects of our society were built by white wealthy men over hundreds of years and those institutions don’t neessarily work very well for those who aren’t white wealthy men. When I as a feminist speak of changing things it isn’t to put women in a position of superiority it’s to make the system more accessible to women and to men who don’t fall into the white, middle class category.

      So when we see no women CEOs in top ftse 100 companies maybe it’s not just enough to encorage women to go for these jobs maybe we need to reconsider how the company structure/culture/working practices which are based on couple of hundred years of male-doinated history may unfairly and entirely unintentionally promote certain men over everyone else.

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      1. Traverse Davies

        Here’s an interesting thing… men also occupy most of the bottom. Most of the homeless are men. Most of the lowest paid workers are men. Most of the suicides are men. If you can figure out why that is you might also have the answer to why most of the CEO’s are men.

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    18. Sophie

      But feminism is about equal rights for men AND women.

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    19. Josie

      “So, do I support feminism? Yes. However, I also support men being equal too.”

      You say that like feminists don’t… feminism is concerned with equal rights, not with elevating women over men.

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      1. izzy82

        Word Josie word!

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    20. Biggsy DaOneTrueKing

      “In 2013, 18915 cases of sexual abuse to children under 16 were reported in England and Wales alone.”

      The problem in your statement is that you assume that the victims are all girls.
      “Adult retrospective studies show that 1 in 4 women and 1 in 6 men were sexually abused before the age of 18 (Centres for Disease Control and Prevention, 2006). This means there are more than 42 million adult survivors of child sexual abuse in the U.S.” http://cachouston.org/child-sexual-abuse-facts/

      Not exactly what you would call a wide gender divide.

      What possible bias could lead someone to thing that the word “child” in fact means “girls”? It’s like boys don’t even exist & to be honest, as a father of a boy, that line of thinking sickens me. In feminism this line of thinking is very prevalent & is a big reason why women & especially mothers of boys, are turning their backs on feminism.

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    21. cadbury51

      No, women and men aren’t “better at different things”. Individual people are better at different things.

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      1. Traverse Davies

        On average, men and women are better at different things. Saying that doesn’t mean that any individual can’t be good at any particular thing.

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    22. npalit

      I completely agree. In fact I have long suspected that the normative feminist debate itself is highly shaped by the male dominated society. Why is it, that in feminist debates, statistics of female board members are always touted, as a demonstration of the inequality that women face. Why is this the ultimate paragon? Doesn’t espousing this as the model of success to strive towards perpetuating a male orientated view of success in society, shaped by the the historical significance placed upon being the “breadwinner,” and implicitly celebrating “masculine characteristics” by extension. Shouldn’t we instead/also be seeking for a societal shift that equally values traditionally “female roles” so that it is as common for a couple to argue over who stays at home to raise the children, as it is to argue who will go to work to support the family.

      *If you disagree with my use of the terminology “masculine characteristics” and “female role,” but you understood what I was referring to then that clearly in itself indicates an existence of pre-determined ideas bestowed upon members of each gender in our society at birth. THIS is what we need to change.

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    23. Meena

      Feminism is equality for men and women politically, economically, and socially….so yeah all feminist believe men are equal too…just look up the definition.

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      1. Traverse Davies

        No. Not all feminists believe this. Even if they did, what if my issue is that tactics and methodologies used to achieve equality, or the definition of equality?

        However, it is very, very clear that many feminists do not believe (in practice) that men and women should be equal. Do you honestly believe that Valerie Solanas and Andrea Dworkin believed that men and women should be equal?

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    24. Sunny

      feminism isnt about female empowerment over men; its about women rising up as equals to their male counterparts in all facets of life. And yes feminism has nothing against men being human and vulnerable and weak– thats entirely out of feminist concerns and has more to do with male stereotypes that claim men must behave a certain way as well; we both face the same issues so why not fight for basic human dignity in treating people equally

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      1. Traverse Davies

        Why do you think that men should fight to be human and vulnerable and weak? What if those aren’t the issues I personally care about? What if I’m mostly concerned with child custody and with the definition of rape being changed to include forced to penetrate? Why do you think you get to decide my issues while saying I don’t get to decide yours?

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    25. Ell

      “feminism: the advocacy of women’s rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men”

      Asking for things for women doesn’t remove the need for the same consideration to be put towards men. A true feminist doesn’t only look for equality for herself, but others. It’s a false equivalency to assume that by fighting for women’s rights, we are fighting against men

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      1. Traverse Davies

        No true scotsman.

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    26. jodi ahmed

      Feminism IS about equal oppurtunities. My husband is as much a feminist as I am, because we both believe that we are equal as individuals and in our relationship… if he wanted to stay at home and be full time dad he can, as could I! I think yet again, the media is doing an excellent job of demonising feminists as a bunch of lesbian man haters… it’s very effective as it plays on women’s self esteem and their idea of femininity.

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    27. AR

      The thing is, I know this is idealistic, but feminism is about equality, at least in the way I perceive it. I agree, the word is biased and maybe that should be changed, but I personally view feminism as something that empowers everyone with choice, something women have been historically denied but something that we certainly should not deny others (e.g. men) of, within reason. I would love to hear more about this though, because I know unfortunately we can’t even agree on what feminism is as a society, let alone what we can do with it.

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    28. Tejanarusa (@Tejanarusa)

      Feminism is all about your having the CHOICE. The picture of feminism as forcing women into the workforce is a distortion promoted by media who love to simplify and make fun. Choice was the whole point. We in the late sixties felt that we had no choice, and no one understood our desire to do something different, or in addition to the traditional choices. Nobody says you can’t be a feminist mother, and if you want to stay home with your kids and can work it out economically, and find a man who will support you in that choice, good for you.
      But one word of warning; don’t make it your only choice. Raising children “only” takes twenty or so years each. Yeah, I know, if you are twenty now, that seems like a loooong time. It isn’t. One day your kids will be on their own, and then what? Have a backup plan, and realize that although it should be different, employers regularly assume you have no skills if you haven’t worked for ten or twenty years.
      Just think about you will do when the kids are raised, make a plan, and follow it (with flexibility; life happens).
      It makes me so so sad to hear young women saying “I just want to have a choice” as if feminism is the opposite.

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    29. Ice

      “maybe instead of simply supporting feminism we should support equal opportunities” That’s the definition of feminism, the support of equal rights, choices, and opportunities for all.

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    30. Patricia

      I think you’d find that men are not so much ashamed of telling women that they want to be stay-at-home dads, but ashamed of telling other men.

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      1. Traverse Davies

        Are you sure of that? Men are often in competition with each other, and actually tend to care a lot less than you would imagine about each others opinions. They universally care about women’s opinions, at least all the ones I know.

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    31. Kay

      Feminism doesn’t mean “women first” or that women be superior. It calls for equality. Some feminists fight for different goals or causes, but it is primarily a movement toward equality.

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    32. Phoenix

      Don’t you realise that the examples you cite *are* feminist issues? Feminism strives for equality of gender. Take your househusband example: the fact that the men are worried that they won’t be seen as “real men” is a feminist issue because it is still considered to be shaming or demeaning for a man to do a woman’s work!
      I also don’t know why you stated what the 12yo girl was wearing; her clothing has absolutely nothing to do with it.

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    33. axel

      Hey, just wondering, when you say “However, I also support men being equal too.”, how do you reach the conclusion that feminism is against that when the original post contains a statement such as “Feminism is a movement for freedom, equality, choice, love, compassion, respect, solidarity, and education.”?
      That’s one of the problems: some people seem to think that feminism is about women getting there revenge on men and being the ones on top instead. Whereas the point of feminism, from what I understand, is to get rid of discrimination based on gender – supposed or real – and really, to bring down patriarchy, which oppresses women and men (in different ways, to different degrees).

      So of course feminism supports your will to be a housewife, but it really hopes it’s your real choice, not the expression of an ingrained domination, so to speak. In fact, it really supports your right to be whoever you want to be without your gender being the main criterion to decide who that might be (and this both for men and women).

      Like

    34. Zaph

      But supporting men’s equal opportunities is ALSO part of feminism. Why? Because it’s patriarchy – masculine hegemony – that denies the rights of BOTH sexes.

      Like

    35. C Sampath

      Please educate yourself more about this before making assumptions that have already distorted the very meaning of feminism.
      Feminism =/= misandrist women asking for special privileges/ dominating over men.
      Feminism = the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men.
      It IS about EQUALITY – not discounting men’s rights in favour of women’s. Men can be feminists, too.
      It was through the efforts of the feminists that the definition of rape was broadened to include male victims just like how male victims of domestic violence could have the right to be acknowledged with dignity (a struggle that’s far from victory but we can get there with cooperation).
      It’s great that you are passionate about your plans to be a housewife. Feminism is about freedom. And anyone who dares to question your choices is no feminist at all.

      Like

      1. Traverse Davies

        Many feminists actually fought against the idea that men could be raped, and still do (some of course supported it). Many feminists oppose funding for shelters aimed at male victims of domestic violence. There have been active attempts by feminist organizations to block campus mens centres (centres to provide resources to male students). Most of the WAF crowd are reacting to feminism as it is routinely practiced around them, not to the dictionary definition.

        Like

  2. flamidwyfe

    Reblogged this on Flamidwyfe's Blog and commented:
    Thought provoking!

    Like

  3. Sambo

    So when a man is scared or intimidated walking home through a secluded area, that must be sexist too right?

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    1. Elvy Villaescusa

      When a man is scared or intimidated walking home alone is because of crime or insecurity problems just as it happens with woman. The problem is there are less probabilities for a man to be seen as a potencial victim of rape.

      Like

      1. Traverse Davies

        Interestingly men are more likely to be the victims of violent crime, by a huge margin, than women are.

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    2. Gill

      YES, because men are less likely to tell people they feel afraid in this situation than women are. Why? Because misogyny places women as the ‘weak’ ones and weakness is displaying emotion – especially fear or distress. Men are taught that to be a man they have to be more than a woman – stronger, more capable and ultimately unafraid. Sexism harms men too.

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    3. red13

      how does that even make any sense? did you even read the article?

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    4. Shanel

      I see what you are trying to employ but when was the last report of a man walking home alone that had been grabbed by a woman, then violently raped and/or beaten? Everyone runs the risk of danger walking home late, no matter what age or gender, I’m not discrediting that. It’s an issue. But so is teaching people how to “avoid” being raped.

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    5. Melonie

      Yes, it is. That’s the whole point, feminism is about equality for all genders. It doesn’t aim to trample over men to get women to the top of the social/political ladder. It just aims for equality so that means that feminism doesn’t want men or women to be scared walking home through a secluded area.

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    6. matthewvernall

      Depends. Is he in fear of being attacked and mugged? That’s a common fear for most people of either gender. Is he in fear of being raped? Again, though it’s more common for women, the possibility isn’t impossible. But the amount of men who feel unsafe walking late around women they’ve just met is astronomically small compared to the amount of women who can’t feel safe in public for fear of sexual assault.

      That’s the god damn difference. It’s the fact that if you’re a man caught by thugs on a late night, you may get beaten up and mugged, but a woman will get that as well as srxual assault.

      If she dies, she has been tortured to death. If she lives and is living in a community that means she must marry her rapist, what kind of life is that?

      Feminism isn’t proving that women are better than men or crap like that. It’s about every human being treated equally. Everyone.

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      1. Traverse Davies

        Wait… what? Marry her rapist? In the depths of history or in extreme theocracies yes, but most feminists don’t live in that world. Most feminists live a world where if there is evidence of rape the rapist will go to jail, and then has to have some special protection or he will be murdered by the other prisoners, and the guards often let that special protection slip intentionally.

        Also, I have had a knife held to my throat while someone tried to make me give them a blow job. I was rescued, but by pure random chance. I am a man. Maybe men don’t fear this happening, but it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. Maybe men are just less fearful because we are not constantly told that we should be afraid. Maybe you are the problem, not the solution.

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    7. Chiquitita

      feminism is still very much needed in the west (white independent female citizens category included) because your countries have laws like this:http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/29/criminalising-pregnant-women-dystopia-freedom?CMP=fb_gu . the hobby lobby tragedy was not too long ago too.

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      1. Traverse Davies

        So, I agree with you that this law is a joke, as is the hobby lobby decision (although l do appreciate what the Church of Satan decided to do with it). This is a very good argument in favour of feminism, because it actually addresses real examples of inequality in society.

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      2. Tejanarusa (@Tejanarusa)

        You are so right!

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    8. Jo

      That’s a completely different argument. One that has nothing to do with sexism.

      Like

    9. Johnny

      Yes it is. Masculinity is a construct that damages both men and women through violence, belligerence and intimidation. Luckily for you and me, the Feminist movement directly challenges this. They are your allies, and your comment shows you’re on the way to understanding that.

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      1. Traverse Davies

        Masculinity isn’t inherently bad. It can go to a bad place, as can femininity. To demonize masculinity is to demonize men for what they are, not to react to people for who they are. Masculinity isn’t simply violence, although the modern world often depicts it as such. Remember, the warrior poet is an old archetype, and in many, many cultures showing your emotions isn’t seen as being a thing of one gender or another (hell, it’s not seen as such in the precursors to our current culture, the west just comes from a long line of emotional repression for everyone).

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    10. poussey

      it depends… what are you afraid of? what´s your first thinking if you see someone coming? are you afraid if you see a women? and if you see a men coming, what do you imagine can happen to you? been robbed? been beaten? does that have anything to do with your men condition? but do you even think about the possibility of beeing rape? do you ever imagined the possibility of being raped? Most women that I know have this first thinking. Does that have anything to do whith the fact that they are women? That is sexism: what kind of opression you receive, nore than the fact that it exists opression in general matters.

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    11. izzy82

      If he were being targeted because he was a man. Oh and if there weren’t that whole history of misogyny that makes many women feel like this – http://izzyinatizzy.wordpress.com/2014/07/30/the-reality-of-being-female/

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    12. Andrew

      What is the likelihood that a man will be attacked and raped as he walks to his car in a dark parking lot as compared to the same experience for a woman? For that matter, what is the likelihood that a mugger will attack a woman rather than a man?

      Like

      1. Traverse Davies

        You know that men are overwhelmingly the victims of violent crime right?

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    13. ou812

      No, men are the privileged oppressors. Who gives a damn what happens to them?

      Like

    14. Macy

      the example of a woman walking home through a dangerous area at night is to highlight that her feeling unsafe is due to the dangers imposed on her specifically for her gender/sex. the example does not aim to highlight that women are the only ones capable of feeling unsafe, but rather it demonstrates that crimes such as rape (sometimes torture and murder accompany the act) and other forms of sexual assault and harassment are more often projected onto women walking alone in dangerous areas than men. clearly both sexes are at risk for rape, robbery, battery, or murder, but these risks are SIGNIFICANTLY higher for women. you are missing the point with flying colors.

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      1. Traverse Davies

        Actually the risks of harm are lower for women than they are for men statistically. Yes, the risk of rape is higher (actually I don’t know that to be true, that’s an assumption on my part, since I assume most of the time when a woman rapes a man it is not stranger rape…).

        Men are more than twice as likely to be killed, more than twice as likely to be beaten, etc. They make up the vast majority of victims of violent crime. Perhaps we need to stop telling women that they are more likely to be harmed, since I don’t think it helps them to see themselves as victims.

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    15. ff

      Men are braver so they don’t get scared that easily even if they are much more propable to be beatern or killed on their way home than any woman. This article told everything that is wrong with the so called feminism of the western women, and which has nothing to do with the miseries of the poor people in third world countries that the feminist so shamelessly take advantage of.

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    16. bethalexandra

      No, a man being scared to walk home alone isn’t sexist. The word sexist doesn’t even fit in with the grammar of that sentence. What you’re talking about however are gender roles that exist for both men and women that dictate things like: men are never allowed to be afraid and they are tough and women are weak and delicate. Feminism rejects these gender roles because it is damaging in different ways for everyone involved. Sexism means: “prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex.”

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    17. Margo Duncan

      What on earth are you talking about? How many incredibly stupid people are actually on this thread, anyway? “So when an idiot posts that sometimes men get scared in a dark alley, that means women don’t deserve equal pay; laws that protect them from beatings/being sold/rape;the right to a job they are qualified for?” See how stupid that sounds? That’s an echo of your brain.

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    18. Michael

      I’m a man, and the only time I’m ever scared or intimidated walking home through a secluded area is when I know that the area is particularly violent. I’ve never, not once in all the times I’ve walked alone through secluded places, been scared of being raped. That’s a privilege that women do not have, and you, Sambo, are an asshat for trying to marginalize that.

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      1. Traverse Davies

        No, it isn’t. Look, stranger rape is incredibly rare… incredibly. The fear that women experience has more to do with people saying that they should be afraid, that they have reason to be. Men are more than twice as likely to be harmed on the street, so if anyone has reason to be scared it is men. Being baselessly scared isn’t evidence that society mistreats women, it’s evidence that society misinforms women… and here you are perpetuating that.

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  4. Chiquitita

    sexism is over in the west?! why was the news not on tv dammit! 🙂

    this article is from 2007 and it is still relevant in the west (i put a translation into arabic of it in my wordpress blog) http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2007/10/19/sexism-definition/

    reading some of the comments here all i could think of is: system justification bias. it’s one thing to feel, for example: im cool with being sexualized or sexualizing myself, and this is why i im against feminism, and another to claim and pretend and deny that the sexualization of women does not exist where you live and therefore you don’t need feminism. go figure.

    Like

    1. Traverse Davies

      Many people (most people outside of academia) disagree with that definition, and even if you agree with the definition (personally I think it’s fine to use in academic sociology, but that you should not confuse an academic specific use term with a general use term, so that definition only adds confusion to lay discussion) the conclusion that is reached is no longer valid, as women do have power in our society. It is hard to argue that I have more power than Oprah Winfrey, so does that mean she has the ability to be sexist against me? I have worked for more female bosses than male bosses in my life (my current job, everyone in the management chain above me is female… every single person as of a few days ago, when our company was purchased by a company with a female owner, up until then we had a male owner, and a few male executives, but they were in another province, everyone that I interacted with was already female). In fact, almost our entire management structure (including departments I don’t work for) is female.

      This is actually fairly common in Canada. Especially in government departments. You can have entire departments without a single man. My SO works for a medical school, and almost the entire faculty is female… except the dean, who is male (but it is very likely that as older doctors die out or retire that women will end up in those roles as well, he’s a holdover from when most doctors were men, since most new doctors are women that’s obviously going to change soon).

      Clearly doctors as a group hold enormous social power.

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    2. mickster66

      So explain why the fact that women are sometimes sexualised requires me to believe in a pernicious ideology, oh that’s right, it’s because the pernicious ideology tells me I must. So what if women are sexualised, so are men, both men and women sexualise themselves and each other, this is only a problem if you believe in infalseifiable ‘theories’ like patriarchy, but I might a well believe in God, as an atheist that isn’t going to happen, nor am I about to believe in ‘rape culture’ ‘the male gaze’ or any of the other bits of misandrist dogma you want to peddle.

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    3. Chris

      And you think that the sexualization and objectification of men does not exist? And what exactly is wrong with sexualization anyway? As humans, we are sexual creatures (one of the few that has sex for pleasure) and it’s a very powerful motivator for us.

      Why do feminists rail against the appreciation of the female form? It’s beautiful and sensual. The male form is also beautiful in its functionality and power. Why can’t we, as humans be allowed to appreciate this?

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    4. Lauren

      That’s good for you. You choose to sexualise yourself. Some women want to choose something else. Feminism is about choice. If feminism never happened you wouldn’t choose. You might be somewhere that is extremely unsexual.

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      1. Chiquitita

        lauren- thank you!

        it’s one thing to be sexualized and you are aware of it and ok with it, and another to deny the sexualization. nobody tells women what to do with themselves. is this the case yet anywhere in the world? no. the demands may not be the same everywhere but they are still unmet. the fight continues.

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  5. Chiquitita

    beautiful entry! thank you for sharing!

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  6. Chiquitita

    is it possible that you use the archive and/or categories widgets of your theme? they makes browsing posts a pleasantly easy process.

    Like

  7. kellen

    The fight never stops. Some may have thought racism wasn’t that bad. All it takes is a big change at those people fighting against change will show themselves. Like the situation with the kids from central America. It’s quite right now which is the perfect time to remind everyone about equal rights. You can not wait or stop.

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    1. EqualityEd

      Racism is always far more serious because the conflict between ethnic groups isn’t between members of the same nuclear family. White men and women form white families. They will work together to put white interest before that of other groups. Feminism is an extension of that relationship into the social justice sphere. White interest are protected by fixating on women rather than lower classes or minorities who usually represented by non white families. Feminism’s long life has been mostly dependent on it’s appeal to white women who automatically get he sympathy of white men.

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  8. Jo

    Couldn’t make it through all the comments but I think you can be a modern liberal feminist and be for equality between the sexes. I can understand that lots of people think feminism cannot be for equality because the name sides with women but for many it has grown and changed over the years to encompass equality. It started as feminism because of the patriarchical society but as time passes and we understand more about social expectations, we question how those affect men too. Or at least an understanding feminist who is in favour for equality can. A person can want equality and feminism (not a feminism that promotes ‘positive discrimination’) Lots of problems are caused just by the word feminist because it means different things to different people. Some view it as solidarity for those worse off in other countries while others see it as an excuse to hate men. Modern non-radical feminism tends to also wish for equality. As with many movements, anything too radical tends to end up destructive to other people which then gives the whole movement a bad name.

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    1. Cat

      Ah, I love this comment. Seriously, I was trying to sum up and say the exact same thing on another comment but I couldn’t quite describe it in the same articulate way so…cheers.

      Like

    2. Rita

      As I mentioned in a comment above, feminism is not about making women more equal than men, it has always been about making men and women equal. That means, same rights for both genders, be it women in the work place, men in the workplace, women as stay at home mom or men as stay at home dads. In all cases, equal rights for both genders

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    3. Unfinished

      No one is listening to the other side here… except you, it seems. I think if people on both sides of this issue stop and think about what you wrote, they may come a step closer to understanding each other.

      Like

  9. Fergus

    Isn’t this based on an assumption in the opening paragraph that all the “Women Against Feminism” people hold their view because they believe that sexism doesn’t exist anymore?

    I’m not against feminism because I believe that sexism doesn’t exist. I’m against feminism because I believe sexism DOES exist … for both genders. I truly believe the only way to move towards true equality is to abolish women’s AND men’s rights movements and unite under a movement which treats all social issues (whether it be domestic violence, sexual discrimination, body image issues and associated eating disorders, etc) the same no matter what gender it’s happening to. Despite feminists claiming otherwise, I and apparently many other people feel that it doesn’t do enough to tackle men’s rights issues.

    Please … stop and listen to what the other side has to say before calling them uneducated, ignorant or stupid.

    Like

    1. Benjamin89

      What Men’s Rights Activists fear is being treated the way they treat women. Feminism actually IS about equality, even if you don’t have the wit to see it. Come back with this argument when men have been systematically, legally and culturally repressed for a thousand years or so, when men are shot dead for refusing to have sex with strange and violent women, when men have a 1/5 chance of being sexually assaulted in their lifetime.

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    2. Chiquitita

      “Sexism is both discrimination based on gender and the attitudes, stereotypes, and the cultural elements that promote this discrimination. Given the historical and continued imbalance of power, where men as a class are privileged over women as a class (see male privilege), an important, but often overlooked, part of the term is that sexism is prejudice plus power. Thus feminists reject the notion that women can be sexist towards men because women lack the institutional power that men have.

      FAQ: What is “sexism”?

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      1. Traverse Davies

        That’s fine if you are in an academic setting, but in the general public sexism means to discriminate based on sex. Also, in the world right now there are many, many situations where women actually have more power than the man they are dealing with, so therefore even by the academic definition it is clear that women can be sexist against men.

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      2. mickster66

        So you can define prejudice in such a way that women can’t be guilty of it, what an intellectual high point feminism occupies in the history of ideas. Get real, leave the ideology behind and let’s make some real changes toward a better world, not prop up a hateful, facile victim cult.

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      3. paul

        U serious?

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      4. Joey

        I’m for womens’ and mens’ equal right and pretty sure that also men can experience sexism.
        Also men have to suffer from unequal treatment, eg with respect to fathers’ rights having contact with their kids or having the same rights as the mother to raise the kid still together after divorce in a variety of countries. Also this is backuped by laws and institutions. But anyways, in the end it does only partially matter if a discrimination could be argued on institutions based theory or simply on an individual level. To all men experencing negative things like these a “definition” and statement like “thus feminists reject the notion that women can be sexist towards men” is a punch in your face. This radical statement may lead to a critical attitude of men and maybe also of some women towards feminism. These kinds of feminist definitions produce the picture of women as the victims and men as the offender – always and in every single case. As a man you could easily feel permanently accused by the feminist movement of being the evil itself. All this said, I am truely for equal rights for all genders, but not only for genders, also for all social groups fighting for their rights. The thing called “positive discrimination” of women discriminates men and as well other social groups which do not have such a lobby than feminism has.

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      5. kalo

        So the next time a woman tells me to “man up”, “to act less like a girl”, “to be less sensitive” I just answer: “you don’t have the institutional power to be sexist”. Problem solved! Life can be so easy.

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      6. Watcher

        The fundamental flaw of feminism is its inability to see that fighting for womens rights and fighting for equality are two different things.
        Sometimes they coincide, sometimes they are unrelated, and sometimes they are in direct opposition to each other.

        Women in 2014 America have a huge amount of power, choice, and privilege. For example since women are the majority of voters, women could elect female politicians and men would not have the votes to say otherwise. Luckily most americans vote for the person they believe will best represent them, not the person with similar genitalia.

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      7. Zybart

        That’s akin to a racial minority rejecting the notion that THEY can be racist, due to the lack of institutional power they wield. It doesn’t stand up. Individuals who exert power over others due to their gender are equally guilty of sexism – perhaps not of the institutionalised kind – but guilty nevertheless.

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      8. Chiquitita

        Zybart- yes. guilty of something. but this something, unless the power is institutionalized, is anything but sexism. could be prejudice. could be exploitation. sexism, like racism, requires institutional power. the linked post actually provides solid argument for this. i take it you have read it?

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      9. Traverse Davies

        The idea that sexism is prejudice based on sex + institutional power is a useful distinction in sociology, not however in a lay discussion, as sexism in a lay discussion means prejudice based on sex… to use an academic term in a lay discussion is simply not useful. Most of the people in the discussion will be using language differently, and they aren’t wrong for doing so…

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      10. Matt

        This is why modern, Western, feminism is a complete failure. Male privilege is a myth. I don’t feel privileged knowing that for comparable crimes I am more likely to be sentenced and more harshly than a woman. I’m less likely to receive equal visitation rights to my children or an appropriate portion of my estate if I go through a divorce. I am treated as disposable by my society – both physically and emotionally. I am expected to be the primary breadwinner and my worth is tied into my utility in a society where women have equal rights to men. Equal rights and unequal responsibilities. Yes, there are elements of sexism for women – sometimes quite considerable and upsetting – but that is true for men also. If male privilege existed why would the males in power be systematically subjugating men?

        There is no patriarchy, there is no male privilege. Feminists twist evidence to suit their theories, not the other way around. I’ve never seen any workable definition of a patriarchy and when one throws up examples of areas where males aren’t privileged feminists either ignore it or say that males are in power so those decisions somehow benefit men. I’ve heard things like divorce settlements are sexist because they assume women to be better caregivers. Either they are and that’s fair or they’re not and MEN are being subjugated due to sexist attitudes, not women. It’s like saying women aren’t as strong as men so they can’t work in a factory. Ever hear people complain about how sexist that is towards men? No, because they’re not the ones being denied an opportunity.

        You want to know why men really hold all that power? Because, as a gender, we systematically seek out and pursue it far more aggressively. I’m not saying there isn’t inherent sexism in some institutions but in general you have legislation protecting you now. More women could have more high power positions but they don’t seek it out as aggressively as men do. These traits also explain the ridiculous and oft-quoted “wage gap”. Men seek promotions more and are more assertive. Thus they get raises. Sorry, but your theories don’t make sense any more and they’re causing more harm than good.

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      11. Chiquitita

        matt- a man may be discriminated against. this discrimination is not because he is a man. it’s because he isn’t what a man must be (i.e.not fulfilling his roles as a man). a man may also be prejudiced against. on the bigger scale, men do have privileges over women. patriarchy does exist (debating this is like debating evolution).

        now to what really caught my attention in your comment. matt, do you believe men are instinctively competitive and women are instinctively and inherently and innately not? 🙂 because if you do, your belief is sexist. or do you believe that men are inherently and instinctively and innately more competitive than women are? that would be sexist too. otherwise you should be asking: why the women you see/know/observe do not do what you say men do. it will take right back to why feminism is here 🙂

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      12. ou812

        Right, the privileges of reduced life expectancy, higher rates of homelessness, alcoholism & suicide, harsher penalties for similar crimes, etc. Or is that just “Patriarchy Hurts Men”?

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      13. Chiquitita

        🙂

        i don’t have the statistics or contexts to see the basis ofthe above in gender. but if you are asking if men are able to abuse their male privilege, yes.

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      14. Margo Duncan

        “Thus feminists reject the notion that women can be sexist towards men because women lack the institutional power that men have.” Good God, just because someone wrote this on their blog doesn’t make it true. That blogger does NOT have the rights to the definition of feminism under copyright, this is simply a statement she made up hoping to get re-quoted. To say ALL feminists think women can’t be sexist towards men is the stupidest thing I’ve heard since the guy up top who thinks men being scared in a dark alley means feminism isn’t real. Feminism demands equal rights for women. What part of that is so hard for people to get? Why do they feel they need to add their own unproven agenda?

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      15. Chiquitita

        do you have counter arguments or you just think it’s the stupidest thing you’ve heard and that’s it? 🙂

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    3. Johnny

      Who is “the other side”? Men? Or anti-Feminist women?

      People think they can come to this debate with their own definition of Feminism and even about what they think “equality” means, as if an opinion based on incorrect information should be listened to and respected.

      And plenty of people, educated and otherwise, try and join in an argument from a position of proud ignorance. And when you think about it, that’s quite stupid.

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    4. Danielle

      There are men’s rights movements?

      Feminism isn’t about women asking for MORE than men, it’s about talking to men (and other women) about what equality is, how we don’t have it, and what we can do to rectify it.

      Again, I think the stigma of bra burning, man-hating crazies makes women reject feminism and recoil at labeling themselves feminist for fear of appearing “too aggressive”. That’s another element of sexism that scars the movement and would-be participants (such as yourself.) It’s a negative ad campaign run by men and women alike for the fear of change.

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    5. Jac Meyers

      I can’t take this comment seriously because from the start there are logical incongruences. If you knew anything at all about feminism, you would know that it’s about equality, not just women’s rights. You are in fact opposing something that is not true. You cannot say you are anti-feminist and then say you believe exactly the things it stands for. If you don’t feel the movement is doing enough for men’s rights, then there must be room within the movement to do more for men’s rights. It does not make sense to appropriate the movement’s guiding principles and then say there is no place for the movement. That’s like saying there’s no place for religion, then trying to use that argument to create a new religion. We have stopped, we have listened to “the other side,” and we have found that they are just trying to say that we no longer have any use and yet they are taking what we believe and trying to make an argument that we should do more of what we essentially are already doing. That is why we treat them like they are ignorant, because they can’t even see that we are on the same side, and I’m sorry but the time and resources it takes to try to reason with these people is wasted and would be better spent trying to accomplish our lofty goal, that is: universal human rights. Feminism and humanism forever.

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    6. Margo Duncan

      I did listen to what you said. And it’s nonsense. Feminism is NOT anti-sexism. Feminism IS equality. And you wonder why people are calling “the other side” uneducated, ignorant, stupid, moronic imbeciles. BTW, no one cares that YOU think feminists aren’t doing enough to tackle men’s rights issues – but do enlighten us on men’s lack of rights, I’d be entertained to hear.

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    7. ejw622

      Feminism is for equality.

      Like

    8. Nese

      How sweet.. So you say that, amount of sexism on men is as much as it is on women, that it needs to be adressed by women, so we should adress them all together, and you conveniently decised that the best way of doing this is starting with rejecting feminism? What kind of a utopian parallel universe are you living in? How naive one needs to be to not to comprehend that women are by far, like million times, more supressed and oppressed by men? And why is it so hard to see that the sexism towards men is also doneby men themselves? How and why is it women’s responsibility to worry and do something about men’s problems? like, how did this also became another task in the to do list women, as if we are not doing enough for men, already? Nope, this article is exactly adressing women like you and has every right to call you uneducated, ignorant and unaware.. You, living in your first world, dealing with first world problems, need to raise your head up and gain some perspective, asap.. Like, now..

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  10. Katharine Elmer

    Reblogged this on Katharine Elmer and commented:
    Brilliant. True. Also depressing as hell.

    Like

  11. Monica

    Ugh see this is exactly what is wrong with first world feminists, the way they harp and whine about women in third world countries but never actually go and help them. Feminism in western society right now is doing positively NOTHING to help third world women. So what do you do? You bitch and moan about how YOU NEED FEMINISM (basically an excuse to play a victim) because there are other oppressed women around who you 100% are not helping. The only time you even mention them is to tell people why we need feminism. You don’t care. You literally do not care about these women but you scapegoat them and trot them around like you do. You are the WORST kind of person and I seriously hope people who do this rot in hell. If feminism is needed THAT badly in those countries, how about you move there, instead of staying at home, writing stupid, oppressed articles on your 1000 dollar computer when you damn well know you don’t give a flying crap about these women other than to use them to further your god awful hate movement.

    Like

    1. Sue

      Monica, you sound about 15 years old and if you are older you really should know better. I shouldn’t even bother to reply to you your comment shows such a lack of awareness or understanding about the bigger picture of life.

      Like

    2. Justin Caynon

      The third world can’t be helped by anyone but themselves. We need to stop trying to fix other societies.

      Like

    3. Sarah

      Wow. I really wasn’t going to reply, but my God. To claim that you know anything about someone’s feelings is absolutely ridiculous. Do you know the author? No? Oh, okay then… don’t force shit down her throat for voicing her feelings.
      Are you saying that all feminists that “campaign” for the rights of women in non-western countries should just move? I am certain that in many of those places, they would be murdered… but if that’s what proves they care in your eyes, then I guess they should move. If you’re feeding or donating children in an impoverished nation, shouldn’t you just move there? Oh, that’s right, you didn’t, so you’re the “WORST” kind of person; you don’t literally care about them, after all.
      You are one of the issues here, not the author and not all the feminists. It is you.
      I mean, damning someone to hell? Saying they’re the worst? Are they really worse than, say, a mass murderer? A terrorist? Really?

      Like

    4. Alex

      How do you know she isn’t helping? And writing articles and educating people is helping.

      Like

    5. Sarah

      I don’t believe the article is at any point “whining”, it describes some events which have happened in third world countries, and highlights how awful they are – I think we would agree that they are awful, right?! It then goes on to discuss how inequality still effects those within western society, even if individuals feel that because they personally are not affected, that our society still very much suffers from this. Having an opinion and raising awareness about issues which you are not capable of changing directly yourself does not make your actions careless or by any means pointless. It is an important part of any political group or moevement. Your comments show a lack of thought and also I’m afraid, a lack of consideration. If everyone just stuck their heads in the sand every time they encountered something which was happening “somewhere else” or to someone else then the word would be a truly depressing place. You seem very desperate to shout about how you are not a victim, a “victim” is not a type of person, it is just someone who has had something unfair and unpleasant happen to them. You also, I’m afraid, have the potential to be a victim. No-one “wants to be considered a victim” here, they just want the world to be fair, just and equal for everyone in it. If you don’t agree with that then you need to reconsider yourself and your ability to be compassionate with your fellow humans rather than pointing and screaming at others as if there is something wrong with them…..

      Like

    6. Ajableu.

      Agreed.

      An educated feminist wouldn’t clump all of these issues together in one long tangent. The gender wage gap in the UK or your personal qualms with shaving is not the same as young children being raped in Africa or a woman being beaten to death in India.

      This post ignores the socio-economic, cultural, and religious underpinnings that are unique to each of these countries. It’s not always about just hating women; it’s also about poverty, poor education, political unrest, and religion. Yes, misogyny is a crucial element, but let’s be smart and think critically.

      If you really, really want to make a difference, pick one country, talk about the culture, analyze the religion, scrutinize the economics, familiarize yourself with the statistics, and most importantly, interview the women. Interview lots and lots of women.

      I’ve recently moved to Morocco for a journalism internship. I now see where where Moroccan women’s issues begin and where my problems as an ethnic woman in America end.

      Oh, and please don’t talk about shaving. Your hairy legs have nothing to do with Indian women being raped, beaten, and killed.

      Like

    7. Salma

      And where exactly are you writing your post from, a 20 year old desktop in a mud hut in Somalia whilst taking a break from ‘helping’ all the oppressed women?

      Like

    8. Banana

      Yes, this is good. Women in third-world countries don’t need the gender-biased, ideological sloganeering that is third wave feminism–what they need is a movement that doesn’t use their suffering as a political prop.

      Like

    9. Johnny

      Feminists are just ordinary folk who want equality.

      Like

    10. Danielle

      I think you may have made a lot of assumptions there. You don’t know what the writer here does or does not do for other women.

      And is it better not to speak about the worst case scenarios than to educate women in the west so the CAN help? Maybe we all can’t fly to the third world but we can give to organizations like Red Cross, Somaly Mam or any other organization that helps women. It’s hyperbole to say this is the WORST.

      ….and there of plenty of examples of why western women need feminism in this post too….

      Like

    11. srp

      And what the hell gives you the clairvoyance to be sure that the author does not take action on these issues?

      You’re making up a fiction about somebody, and flinging hatred around on zero basis. You have my sympathy for whatever’s made you such a twisted individual. 😦

      Like

    12. jonathan0129

      100% agreed.

      Like

    13. Jean

      I must disagree with your assumption that feminists “whine and harp” but do not help initiate change. I am in my early 60’s and grew up when the term feminism became a rallying point for my generation. I believe we are still fighting sexism on a more subtle level. I volunteer as a Guardian ad Litem and see first hand the effect domestic violence has on women and children. I do what I can to help these children through the worst times of their lives. I am unable to live overseas, but try to work for change in this country. So, I am not “whining and harping” – I have seen what men can do to women and it is ugly. Are you currently doing anything to help others?

      Like

    14. Namitha Jassem

      As a woman in a third world county, I assure you that articles like this are very much helping. Thankfully, feminists are attacking injustice on multiple levels from the grassroots to the ideological. On the grassroots level I know many Western women that have traveled to “third world countries” and helped women firsthand. In their own countries, they kept up the struggle by writing much-needed, well-researched articles, papers and dissertations.

      Also, I think you might be a tad euro/amerocentric by thinking that “third world countries” do not have access to this information or cannot use it.

      Like

    15. DidIReadThat

      “Hate movement”….. “You are the WORST kind of person and I hope people like you rot in hell…” Yes. Obviously because at least people that rape and murder do things up front and aren’t being fake about their cause. Bringing awareness to others is terrible- who wants to hear about those things, especially if they aren’t taking their asses to India or Nigeria to help those women. Pfffffff

      Like

    16. Marjie

      How do you know that feminists are not helping women in third world countries? There are plenty of organizations which are working towards that goal in these impoverished nations. But the fact is, a lot of the work needs to be done by the native men and women. And you can bet that they will look at western countries for inspiration. The campaigns to vote, the first women in powerful jobs and even “stupid oppressed articles”.

      Like

    17. Allison

      Whoa Nelly! I think that’s a little uncalled for, isn’t it? And how are you so sure that the author doesn’t do anything to help women in developing countries? I agree that we can ALL do more to help people in need, and I think you’re right that there are plenty of people out there who get behind a cause only to “talk the talk” and use those unprivileged as a face for the movement, rather than enforce real change. But it seems very unkind and unproductive to call someone the “worst kind of person” and wish that they “rot in hell” simply because you disagree with them and suspect they are not doing enough to help. I might also mention that some of the worlds greatest leaders of change did not fight battles alone, but instead used their words and voices (as this woman is doing) to call on others. Sometimes it takes voicing concerns to make things happen and words can be powerful.

      Like

    18. Macy

      so are you merely acting as a whistleblower against the author here, or trying to assert that you ARE helping these women? you criticize this author for criticizing… while you yourself are doing nothing about the issue you seem to care so passionately about. maybe you’re a donor, but we (i.e. YOU) are not able to assume a blogger’s humanitarian efforts on the basis of an action committed at one time during a day. “HOW ABOUT YOU” do some “damn” research and educate yourself on Malala Yousafzai, Aung San Suu Kyi, and other international women utilizing the foundations of Western feminism and liberalism to improve third world countries. and could you please cool down in the process? thanks.

      Like

    19. Margo Duncan

      “… they harp and whine about women in third world countries but never actually go and help them…” BULLSH#T Another liar. There are thousands of women in politics, NGOs, and journalism working to help women globally – prove your BS statement, cite your source, show me your data. Oh wait, YOU CAN’T. Because you made it up. You are a pathetic excuse for scum with that screed. You are an insult to every woman who ever worked an extra hour of overtime to donate money to women in Africa, and you are an insult to every female journalist who put her life on the line to reveal atrocities aimed at women in India, you are an insult to every woman who started a charity to get women in impoverished countries birth control or stop genital mutilation. Talk about someone sitting at their computer whining – you’re whining & lying. What the hell does that make YOU?

      Like

    20. Nese

      I have not read anything more stupid and condescending in my life.. How do you know that she doesn’t do anything? That she does not care? And more importantly, how is it her responsibility to move to, lets say Niger, to help these women? Is she United Nations? She writes, she educates, and with only that she does millions times more than others.. No girl, by spreading this much unsolicited hate and prejudice, you actually are the WORST kind of person and hope you rot in hell.. I assume you are the one that does nothing and does not care at all and your guilt trip is projecting on the author of this great piece.. Get a life..

      Like

      1. Juedne

        WELL SAID!!

        Like

    21. juan jose guerrero

      Well said.

      Greetings from Ecuador.

      Like

    22. Jasmine

      Excuse me, but I think you are making extremely unfair generalisations about the feminist movement here. Sure, there are many people out there who legitimately don’t really care about the situations of ‘the other’, but real feminists- i.e those with an understanding of the true aims and focus of feminism- recognise feminism to be a worldwide movement that aims to affect women in all nations, not merely Western ones.
      Feminism is not a reason to ‘play victim’ and frankly I have no idea where this idea originated. And to say ‘why don’t you move there’ proves just how uneducated the general public (I’m certainly not targeting you here; a lot of people don’t seem to understand this) are about the way issues are solved. Frankly, if all us feminists moved to places where there is oppression, we wouldn’t be able to help anyone. Why? Because we would be oppressed!! We can’t help anyone if we ourselves are in the same situation! That’s why it’s so important that well-off, Western women continue to be involved in feminism, so as to help our less-able friends in oppressive and patriarchal societies break free when they are physically unable to do so themselves!
      Please make sure you are educated in just what a movement entails before you accuse them all of being rich, whiny, fake-victim bitches when in reality those people you are describing are the complete opposite of feminism.

      Like

    23. Missminute

      A five minute google search will show you just how much numerous western feminist groups do for the rights of third world women. You must absolutely be joking.

      Like

    24. Jay

      I think this comment is unfair and, ironically, unnecessarily aggressive; not unlike the “feminists” that you’re trying to attack. To call feminism a hate movement is completely inaccurate. I’d like to believe that all women around the world would like to see a more equal world where everyone is able to live a decent life without fear of persecution just because she is a “she”.

      The author isn’t using these women as examples to further the “hate movement”, she’s trying to demonstrate that life in the western world is very different to the experience you would be having if you were living in a developing country. It is easy to see why people like you don’t care about feminism if you’ve never experienced any discrimination. Myself, on the other hand, experience it almost every day for being an asian woman – people just assume that it’s ok to say really offensive, sexual things to me and I was born and live in the UK! Thai bride, anyone? Apparently, I’m an easy target – I’m not even from Thailand!

      My point is, feminism has done a lot for women and we need it to continue as long as there is injustice like this in the world. It doesn’t matter if it’s called “modern feminism”, “equalists”, “humanists” or whatever. It is still more useful than being rude to someone who’s actually making an effort to spread her message than saying that we don’t need to do anything whatsoever.

      Like

    25. Juedne

      Monica, what’s wrong? The author IS actually trying to do something by the very act of writing her piece. ‘The worst kind of person’ (to use your phrase) is the one who rants unnecessarily at someone who IS actually doing something that makes a difference, levying incorrect accusations and making numerous rather extraordinary assumptions. Calm down dear, and think this through.

      Like

    26. gellatmeister

      I love how the responses to this are actually proving you right, the keyboard feminists don’t even know what they’re fighting yet they jump on anyone who points that out to them.

      Like

  12. Tristan

    The problem with this argument is it fires straight past the stance that the “Women Against Feminism” are taking. They’re not standing in opposition to pro-rights movements abroad, they’re not standing against the progress of the past, they’re standing against the aggressive feminism they experience in the present at home.

    You can disagree with that perspective (I know you do), but if you’re going to argue against it you have to argue against what they’re actually standing against. Bringing up issues irrelevant to the stance they’re taking isn’t going to affect them at all. They see a distinction between efforts abroad and at home, between the past and the present. I very much doubt they’d hesitate before standing in solidarity with the Pakistani woman or in celebrating the achievements of the suffragettes. But that’s completely distinct to their stance against modern, western and domestic feminist groups.

    I’m not saying I agree with them, only that this article and the argument it represents is irrelevant to them. They need to be engaged on things founded in the present and at home, in entry-level jobs and student life. Arguments based far from where they take their stand are simply too easy to brush off.

    Like

    1. Sue

      So you are pointing out that they are not looking at things in a whole/big picture way. That strikes me as a problem of their youth and/or ignorance.

      If they feel as though they possess freedoms in their life experience and they are experiencing benevolence and perhaps freedom in their femininity with no oppression from men, they seem to think that they are under no threat of issues that face the majority of other women in society ever surfacing or coming into contact with their little bubble worlds.

      I couldn’t help but notice the many instagram photos of females holding the anti feminism signs, so many of them looked to be girls in their late teens to early 20’s. They seem to be experiencing a mind set that is both ignorant and narcissistic.

      The fact that they do not take into account history and how that history is affecting them today to me shows a lack of understanding of the nature of these issues. It also comes across as very superficial. They seem to be looking around in t heir little bubble worlds and thinking, hey I am not oppressed, my friends don’t seem oppressed, therefore its unlikely no one else in my society is. How sad and clueless.

      They are also undermining anyone who has ever been a victim of dosmestic violence or any other crime that has been committed against women. To be insinuating or some even boldly stating that it is a choice whether you choose to be in a “victim mindset”…PLEASE!

      Sorry but if you study psychology in even a surface way you will understand things like PTSD, and how deeply scarring it is to have been subjugated by someone with power over you.

      I’m glad these girls can feel that feminism is not necessary. I wish it were true, but being in denial is not helping anyone. Its like saying I wasn’t abused by a man, so lets not have empathy for anyone else or even admit that something that is so evident to the majority of people is a non issue.

      Like

    2. Danielle Renae Kathryn Then

      YAAASSSSSSSS. EXACTLY. The worst part is that they are using these ridiculous intimidation tactics.

      Like

    3. Dale

      Right. This is called a strawman argument, and that is what this article is engaging in. Characterize your opponents position incorrectly, and then proceed to argue against it.

      Like

    4. Harvey

      Very well said.

      Like

  13. Susan

    There are so many different perspectives about men and women and society. The fact of the matter is that there is a dominant and over riding theme in the world as a whole of women having to come up from being under men in many ways. The fact that a patriarchal society has been predominant (yes even in Western culture) is not a myth people!

    The fact that men are physically stronger than women and more capable of dominating women has actually been a very real problem for many women even in western society.

    Women were also typically not as free as men to do what they may have wanted to in their lives. Now we in the western society have somewhat more freedom to be ourselves than we ever have before; that said men still do try to dominate women or have a sense of entitlement over women.

    This is not uncommon, if you are lucky enough to have had a Father who was kind, caring and considerate, especially if you are of a certain generation I think you are actually not in the majority.

    Most men have serious issues with their identity, struggle with the idea of self empowerment versus power OVER others. Men (not all but many of them) naturally dominate and have dominated because of their physical strength.

    It is a primal energy that when not in check can easily allow a male to subjugate those that are physically weaker than themselves – this is not always even an obvious thing it can be a subtle and even psychological thing.

    Men have had to learn slowly that subjugating women or those weaker than themselves (other men or children) is not right nor fair, and sadly while men still feel the need to flex their false ego selves in an off balance way we will continue to see domestic violence, war and crimes that are born from the distorted male ego.

    That said there needs to be more understanding on both sides, women need to see how hurt men are, that the ones that act out in such ways are in deep fear. It is not about saying men are wrong or bad but slowly teaching people about humanity and compassion for others.

    Like

    1. Andrew

      Please don’t sit there and act like you know anything about what it’s like to be a man.

      What you just said was extremely sexist. Men do not want to dominate women. You completely ignore the blood, sweat and tears that men have had to pay to care and provide for women. Blood, sweat and tears that men still pay.

      And nobody cares. Least of all you, apparently. You’d rather just blame men for every problem in the world. But you’re ignoring that men are committing suicide four times at the rate of women. Men are 80% of the homeless. Men are rapidly falling behind in education because of a system that would rather medicate young boys with mind altering drugs than engage them. Men are 45% of domestic violence victims and are being ignored. As of 2010, if you include being forced to have sex with a woman ad rape, then women are raping men as often as men are raping women, but nobody cares enough to label that rape. Divorce courts routinely leave men in poverty. Child custody courts routinely rip out our souls by taking our kids away. We’re useddas cannon fodder in wars we have no say in. And we’re constantly demonized as an entire group by people like you, who blame all of us for the actions of less than 1% of us.

      And nobody cares.

      Like

    2. nogaku2014

      Thank you for a great, well-reasoned response. Compassion is all most people want but we get so caught up in the labels we forget it’s the “spirit of the law that matters; not the writing of it”. Unfortunately feminism, like many other movements with originally peaceful or compassionate intentions, has taken on a broader and negative meaning for some people. Education, as always, is the key.

      Like

    3. lujlp

      “The fact that men are physically stronger than women and more capable of dominating women has actually been a very real problem for many women even in western society.”

      I know right? Vaccines, indoor pluming, electricity, internet, factory farming, intercontinental road ways, airline travel, a lack of world spanning wars, and a crime rate that is lower now than at any point in human history.

      Clearly women have never been so oppressed by men than they are today

      Like

    4. Traverse Davies

      I appreciate that you acknowledge that many men are hurting, and that women need to look more closely at them, but I also think you need to look more closely. Often things that seem like they are done for reasons of cruelty from our modern perspective are in fact things that grew out of survival needs. Sometimes the habit remains long after the need for the habit has passed away.

      Like

      1. jhan1969

        Normal, everyday people don’t care about western feminism anymore because it’s been taken over by insane radical leftists.

        Next question?

        Like

    5. mickster66

      You are making a bunch of misandrist assertions and assigning lots of unfounded motivations and psychological evaluations to men in general with no evidence to back any of these absurdly biased statements. Clearly you see the world through a gynocentric and feminist lens and hence you don’t see the real world at all. This is simply hate speech, you show yourself to be nothing but a bigot, you don’t want to teach ‘people’ you want to teach men about compasssion and humanity, things you clearly need lessons in yourself, you patronising hate monger.

      Like

    6. markxneil

      Yeah… feminism isn’t about hating men. nope nope nope

      Like

    7. Arly

      Yes! You said it.

      Like

    8. Matt

      Your comment is deeply offensive. Mostly because of how idiotic and ill-informed it is. Where the hell are you getting these numbers from? “Most men”, “Men (not all but many of them)”, “men still feel the need”, “men still…”. Who are these men and where are you getting this twisted view of males from? Your comment reads as wounded and bitter, not educated and critical. You’ve clearly had encounters with several dominating, aggressive, cold individuals and basically gone “Yup, that’s how all dudes are.”, likely you’ve had some unfortunate relationships, one of which was almost definitely with your father, and you’ve extrapolated to everyone else.

      Even if I took any of your conjured up statements as being true I think you’d find your critique is total bollocks. Men struggle with their identity because they have next to no social support in the majority of cases. Males don’t bond the way females do and self-disclosure isn’t often a priority in male-male interactions. Male role models are also incredibly difficult to find; given that many families end up divorced now (with females being given unequal custodial rights) and the vast majority of teachers being women there’s not really anyone to model yourself on other than your peers. All you have to do is look at the suicide, alcohol abuse, drug abuse and violence rates among men compared to women and note that they are huge differences. Sure, you can say it’s down to testosterone (and I can say you whining is down to your period), but the fact of the matter is that a lot of men are being failed in our society. You look at a huge social failure and say men aren’t wrong or bad but they do have a totally distorted ego and they cause war, crime and violence. Good one.

      However, as I said, the fact of the matter is is that most men are actually pretty well-adjusted. The vast majority aren’t cruel, aren’t abusive, aren’t anything different to most women. They’re just people. And your poorly educated generalisations do nothing other than highlight your own broken past and subsequent inability to deal with it in a healthy way. Thanks for taking that out on the rest of us.

      Like

      1. Susan

        You can criticize my views all you like Matt but the point you made highlights my own point. You said “Male role models are also incredibly difficult to find” why is that Matt?
        A male’s first and most significant role model is his father, so if that relationship is broken or that father does not give the son the guidance he needs then the pattern repeats. Yes my father was abusive, I have had to work my whole life to process the problems that I have encountered in this relationship. Not only that but I have a lot of friends that had severely troubled relationships with their fathers that cause them to then go on and experience confusion in life (both males and females).

        I’m not blaming men as that is too simplistic, there are many reasons why certain people are suffering in the world.

        Conjured up statements…really? You don’t need to have studied psychology or statistics to know that the majority of serious offenses against women and children are perpetrated by men. Wake up to yourself!!

        Of course I know there are many kind and decent men in the world, but maybe you should do some research Matt… look at the statistics on sociopaths and psychopathy. Why don’t you do some research on this Matt? You will find the majority pf these people are yes men!

        But maybe you don’t want to read those stats because they might offend your sense of yourself.

        Like

      2. Traverse Davies

        This reply is actually to Susan, but I can’t reply directly to her comment. Male role models are largely absent because masculinity has been demonized. Because men usually lose custody battles. Because divorce laws so heavily favour the mother.

        My mother was neglectful (to the point where people are often surprised by the fact that I survived childhood… one day when my mom was telling stories of my childhood my SO had to leave because she was shaking with rage. After she said “Ha ha, child abuse”). My fathers third wife was severely abusive… I don’t have problems with women as whole (although my mom and I have a pretty rocky relationship at times). I have many, many friend who have terrible mothers, friends of both genders. It doesn’t mean women are bad humans, or that society is creating bad mothers, it means that those mothers were bad mothers.

        Like

    9. Missminute

      A lot of that male hurt also comes from patriarchal structures. They lose their kids in divorces because raising kids is considered a female job. They have higher sucicide rates because expressing emotion makes them “weak” and “womanly”. They feel alienated in a society where outdated markers of masculinity are frowned upon. Feminsm benefits men, but it is strongly in opposition to those who engage in sexism.

      Like

      1. Traverse Davies

        I don’t think you understand men very well. I think you have projected what would make you commit suicide onto men. I’ll tell you something that leads to men committing suicide: we have less resources to draw on when our world collapses. Not emotional ones, actual physical ones. There are less beds for homeless me, less financial aid for homeless men, if we are abused and we need temporary shelter to get our life sorted out it isn’t available to us (other than through standard homeless shelters, trust me, not the places to go if you are trying to escape violence and instability).

        Like

  14. Tonia Marie Houston

    Reblogged this on Tonia Marie Harris and commented:
    Part of being #BraveIn2014 is standing up for what we believe in. Wanting change in a world going increasingly mad. Having a vision and using our voice to make it happen. Being aware of the bad in the world around us and finding a way to let the light in. I’m sharing this post today because this is important. Because I still believe we need Feminism, among other groups who stand up and Be Brave every day in ways we have only begun to explore. We need feminism because our daughters, sons, nieces, nephews, or another child is growing up in a world that doesn’t teach self-respect, or respect for others. It is, instead, a world that teaches truth is a brand, a media representation, entitlement, and consumerism over being a human capable of critical thinking. I hope you take something positive away from this article, and explore for yourself what being a feminist truly means in our world today.

    Like

  15. robertainindia

    Reblogged this on robertaisgoingtoindia and commented:
    Absolutely spot on. Definitely worth a read.

    Like

  16. Denisa

    Excellent piece. Thank you. I can see the WAFs already commenting furiously on this page. But once again, they have fundamentally misunderstood the concept. Feminism is about achieving equality for women – not BETTER rights, EQUAL rights. Men and women’s rights are not a zero sum game – to put it in economical terms. To gain rights for one does not mean an equal loss for the other. If you think this, then you do not understand the concept of feminism.

    You are entitled to your beliefs, but you are not entitled to making up/ignoring the facts.

    Like

  17. MPN

    The movement itself is great but what bothers me is how people representing it behave, such as women who abuse the term ‘feminism’ to their benefits. I’m talking mainly about countries where a so-called ‘civiliation’ has been established. I’m all for equality regardless of gender, but yes I can see that sadly vast majority of women are still horribly treated in 3rd world countries and for them ‘feminism’ is the only hope.

    Like

  18. Some thoughts on #womenagainstfeminism | Herstory

    […] inverted misogyny. Yet even these are still first world problems compared to the examples given on this blog which sums it up way better than I […]

    Like

  19. The Wife of Bath

    1) Thanks for writing this important article. My husband read it out loud to me and we talked about it for a long time and then posted it on facebook in hopes our young nieces would read it.
    2) This tumblr is required reading; http://confusedcatsagainstfeminism.tumblr.com/?og=1

    Like

  20. itsthelitchick

    Thank the lord, hopefully knocking some sense into these women.

    Like

  21. Renata

    As much as I agres that I too dont need angra feminism, let’s not be blinded by the fact that we do in fact live in a male dominant world where a professional man with equal experience makes a much higher salary than the equally experienced woman, never mind that, a man less prepared also makes more than the woman professional. We live in a world where women are perceived as less than man, yes that’s true. I would personally like to congratulate you “the writer” with your successful life. Not all women live in your world, I’m fact, I’m willing to bet thatost don’t. You also failed to mentioned single moms who have to obtain court judgements for man to contribute to the upbringing of a child they created together because most (and I’m not generalizing) need to be forced to do so. I don’t know who you are or where you’re from but all us women mostly don’t live in a large house or a flat. We don’t sleep with whoever we want because we are not pieces of meat, and yes we can go anywhere we want if we can afford it or have time after long work hours. No offense and forgive me if I come out this way, your words are very misleading, it doesn’t talk about equality or self respect, I see a person who is selfish, egocentric and apathetic towards the globalized reality of what being a woman today is. I too don’t need angry women fighting foru rights I can do that myself thank you very much, but before you rub in your perfect small world on the rest of social media, try to understand where these feminists come from. Perhaps if they had a little more support from their fellow sisters, they wouldn’t be so angry, after all, like it or not, they are fighting for you too! Sleep on that sweet heart.

    Like

    1. Renata

      That is for the anti feminism groups out there who are blindly until they experience hands on what is like to be a woman today.

      Like

  22. roadworker

    A well thought out and written post – bravo!

    Like

  23. Jackie Cook

    I would totally be about feminism if feminism was as you claim it is : “Feminism is a movement for freedom, equality, choice, love, compassion, respect, solidarity, and education.”. The majority of feminists I see nowadays don’t want equality or love. They want people to “check their privilege”. They assert that women can’t rape men and PoC can’t be racist. How is THAT equality? Rape is rape, men can rape men, women can rape men, and women can rape women. It’s not just “I’m a woman and a man raped me”. (And that’s without getting into trans- people being raped/raping). That is equality. Rape is rape, no matter who is the victim and who is the aggressor. Racism is racism, no matter who is the racist and who the target is. That’s what equality is, and rape and racism should be looked down on no matter who you are. You don’t get a pass because you’re a part of an oppressed group because it brings us all down. And this isn’t even getting into the current culture of cis/hetero hate and lack of equality, love, and solidarity there.

    So, in an ideal world, my version of feminism would include solidarity, education, respect, equality and love, but that’s not what’s happening in the current wave of feminism. People are so wrapped up in micro-aggressions, cis-hate, and privilege that there’s no room for solidarity OR love because it breeds an us vs them culture. It shouldn’t be PoC/non-cis v the world. It should be the world vs things that are bad for us all.

    Like

  24. bluedaisy

    Reblogged this on siobholly's Blog.

    Like

  25. Danielle Renae Kathryn Then

    I don’t need to call myself a feminist to stand up for what I believe in. As a matter of fact, I’m actually working directly with one of the most marginalized groups of women in the world right now. And you’re doing what, exactly? Walk the walk, then you can talk the talk.

    Like

  26. PD

    FYI, this isn’t just an issue for white women growing up in the West. I’m US-born but Indian and am harassed less in India simply because I don’t tolerate shit. Because, unlike a lot of women in India, I grew up knowing I didn’t have to.

    Like

  27. Naomi Simson

    I feel physically ill – young women starting a campaign ‘Women against feminism’ and the facebook page.

    I believe that everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion. But public discrimination in any form is not appropriate and cannot be tolerated. Do these women not see that they are doing to others exactly what they say they are not doing!

    See my recent post on LinkedIn Influencers

    https://www.linkedin.com/today/post/article/20140714051116-1291685-women-against-feminism-sickening

    Like

  28. Syllicat

    This article confuses feminism with human rights. Feminism was the beginning to the downfall of society, both economically and socially. Human rights activists are who actually help. They are not the same.

    Like

  29. David Hansen

    Logical Fallacy: Straw-man

    Those situations illustrated above can be matched tenfold with bad stuff happening to men in those same countries. The woman in the first scenario is supposed to do what after imagining all these atrocities?

    You say feminism is for freedom, equality, choice, love, compassion, respect, solidarity, and education. But I was raised by a feminist single mother. I was reading Ms. Magazine probably before many of you were born.

    But my memory of this wasn’t about freedom, equality, choice, love, compassion, respect, solidarity, and education. It was about “Men were shit, and women didn’t need them”. And the stuff I see on TV and in the media today is that tenfold.

    Like

  30. lucinda032

    The year is 2014. You are a woman considering running for president of the USA, and you are asked whether a grandmother can be an effective president, despite the fact that many grandfathers have been.

    The year is 2014. You are 6 months pregnant when you lose your job. You apply for every job you can find, but no one wants to hire you if you are about to have a baby.

    The year is 2014. You are a professional woman, who has chosen to return to the workforce after having children. You are regularly asked who is looking after your children, how you cope with not being at home with them – questions no one asks your husband.

    The year is 2014. You are a woman who has been raped and is now pregnant. But because you live in rural Texas and you do not have enough money to travel for a termination, you are forced to either give birth to a child to the man who raped you, or consider a dangerous backyard operation.

    The year is 2014. You are a teenage girl who was raped, and your assault was filmed and distributed on the internet. You have to endure endless questions about what you were wearing, how much did you drink, and what did you do to lead him on.

    The year is 2014. You are a female employee of Hobby Lobby, who needs an IUD as a treatment for a medical condition, but because the Supreme Court places your employers beliefs above your health, your only option is to find a way to spend one month’s wages on the device.

    The year is 2014. You are a female living in Australia, who notices that every single ad for cleaning products and child health products is aimed at Mums because of course a Mum’s place is in the home, cooking, cleaning and looking after kids (which is just as unfair to women as it is to men).

    I could go on. I need feminism even in the western world.

    Like

  31. SmarterThanYou

    This article is crap, feminism is retarded and we are treated equally, a woman can rape a man, just because it is more commonly the reverse doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. The only reason you people make it a big deal is because you can get pregnant, and you are governed by your ridiculous emotions, and besides your so called “feminism” isn’t going to stop some poor Nigerian family from selling their daughter to some 40 year old bastard who thinks he’s better than them, he’s not the one at fault, the one the girl and you feminist swines should be cursing is her family who sold her, unless of course you would prefer child labor. If women were the dominant gender (and yes that implies that men are) then I’m sure there would be many corrupted women out there who would rape men just because they could, the corrupted women of today are just cowards, there are some cases in which men are raped. By being a feminist you are being sexist

    FEMINISM IS HYPOCRISY

    You people who think you have a just case are merely victims of your own craziness and gigantic hypocrites, but sure keep telling yourself that you deserve better, keep telling yourself that you’re treated unfairly and men are sexist, keep making your silly excuses, all I can do is hope that one day you might realize that maybe men are just mere qualified for things than you, maybe men are smarter than you, maybe the world’s not sexist and men are just naturally more capable, maybe women are just baby making machines and you’re wrong.

    Like

  32. Juliette Kings

    Reblogged this on West Coast Review and commented:
    Read it and think about it. Good post.

    Like

  33. Rob Guimaraes

    Feminism co-opting reason, decency, empathy, and altruism as if they cannot exist or have never existed without it is like a fundamentalist christian telling you you can’t have morality without biblical laws firmly in place in your life. The reason why we keep having different ethical issues every generation or so is because we solipsistically would rather combat one selective instance of human atrocity under the pretense it will magically translate to everything else rather than actually addressing the underlying flawed mechanisms. That modern feminism (or any selective group) cannot see past their own proud badge to the divisionism they are engendering beyond their line of sight only means there will be more instances of irrational resentment and cliquism to look forward to.

    Like

  34. MONA

    A women being raped has nothing to do with her rights… It’s a crime just like murder.

    Like

  35. Lisa Brown

    Reblogged this on Mindful Musings at Midlife and commented:
    This definitely needed to be said, and this blogger said it so very well.

    Like

  36. Ray

    American Feminism is a joke. I agree with all these international issues. But seriously. American men or women are SERIOUSLY over-entitled! Seeing that woman holding up that sign makes me so happy!

    Like

  37. Backtothe50s

    The year is 2014. You work at Binghamton University. A male faculty member is allowed to destroy paper work crediting you with work conducted by you in your lab; replacing your name with his, thereby giving him credit for your work, something he had nothing to do with. It is 2014 yet little has changed in over 20 years- since you were hired at the same time as three males; each of whom was assigned an appropriate lab to conduct their research, a requirement for the job while you, the only female, was loaned three small cubicles that were clearly inappropriate for your research needs. It is 2014 and there is a program consisting of about 80% female graduate students and not even 30% female faculty where the male faculty don’t view there as being any gender issues while the women view there as being significant problems; and where the administration seems to have little interest in the difficulties. Those who think that women have equal rights and that feminism is not relevant in the US are sadly mistaken.

    Like

    1. Traverse Davies

      In your first example: was he allowed to do that or did he simply manage to get away with it? Had you proven he did that would Binghamton University have punished him? If not, is it because of his sex, or who he in particular is? Had it been a man in your position would the situation have been different? I’m not saying any of this is the case, but I am interested in finding out.

      Like

      1. jhan1969

        Let’s go over this again, for the zillionth time: Ideological Feminism, as it is known in western culture, is a movement to push leftist statism. It has been since the late 60’s, when Marxists took over the feminist movement. This is NOT a ‘theory’; many of the high-level thinkers and leaders of feminism – especially in academia – are SELF-PROCLAIMED Marxists.

        THAT is why ideological feminism doesn’t resonate with regular, everyday women in America. Hardcore ideological feminists are a bunch of MOONBATS.

        THAT is why western feminists don’t really care about the treatment of women in other cultures. Concentrating on other cultures does NOTHING to push a leftist, statist philosophy in AMERICA. In fact, to the majority of leftist feminists (which means 80% of feminists), WESTERN CULTURE is the enemy.

        That’s why you see ZERO western feminists on lamestream media raising a stink about Muslim women wearing full face-coverings and Hijabs in public. That’s why you heard NOTHING about a Muslim male in NJ trying to use the Quran as a defense against spousal rape and the judge BUYING IT!! WE are the enemy for western ideological feminists – not the real bad guys,

        For a leftist feminist – or ANY leftist – AMERICA is the enemy. Capitalism is the enemy. Traditional values like faith, family and hard work are the enemy. Sexual restraint is the enemy (re: ‘sex positive’ feminism, which is really a ‘do whatever you want and the hell with the consequences because someone else will pay for it’ philosophy.

        I really feel for down-to-earth, reality-seeking feminists. They have NOWHERE TO GO. They allowed their movement to be taken over by a bunch of maniacs teaching courses like ‘The Ideology of the Phallus.’ And yet . . . we all thought that only Conservative-Land could be taken over by the crazies 😉

        ideological Feminism, as it stands today, is a movement that promotes the reality of a government holding a gun to your head and rifling through your pockets until there’s nothing left, then blaming everyone else for the fallout. Margaret Thatcher talked about this a long time ago, but since most ideological feminists are lefty retards, they hate her.

        What a shame. To me, Maggie Thatcher is the perfect example of a strong, intelligent woman. Not some hirsute, hippie-reject marching in the street because she wants everyone else to pay for her abortions.

        Like

  38. Against #WomenAgainstFeminism | ennbeebooks

    […] reading (and a much better response to #WAF), check out iwantedwing’s eloquent reaction post. Also, if you want to see a funny parody of WAF, check out Confused Cats Against Feminism. Much […]

    Like

  39. lujlp

    Maybe if feminists spent more time on those actual problems instead of clamoring to fix a nonexistent wage gap; or whine about how there arent enough women in congress, even though women vote in larger numbers than men, you might have a point.

    Like

  40. Sryzr

    “Why do women still only fill 24% of senior management jobs?”
    Because many choose to look after their family instead of pursuing a career.

    “Why are more women than men domestically abused or even killed every week at the hands of their male partner or ex-partner?”
    Because so many relationships are broken. Abuse appears in many types of relationships, not just female-male ones. It happens between men in a relationship, between women in a relationship, and sometimes the female in a female-male relationship is the one instigating abuse. This issue needs to be addressed, but not through feminism.

    “Have you ever noticed how comedy panel shows usually only have one female panellist compared to 4-5 male ones?”
    There are less female comedians than male comedians, so this is not surprising.

    “That almost every dieting product on the market is solely aimed at women?”
    Because women are more concerned with their weight than men. That’s not a feminist issue though – its usually the women putting pressure on other women to look skinny, rather than the men.

    “Do you choose to wear certain clothes because you want to or because you feel ‘unfeminine’ if you don’t?”
    Because I want to. Why do you need society to remove all pressures from you before you do what you want?

    “Do you choose to cover yourself up because you want to or because you feel ashamed or intimidated by a man looking at your body?”
    For modesty, not shame or intimidation. People of both genders should cover up for modesty.

    “Did you parents dress you in pink as a baby because they liked the colour or because you were born a girl?”
    They didn’t dress me in pink – even though I’m a girl. But for those parents who did, what does it matter what colour you wore as a baby?

    “Do you want to have children because you want to or because you are a woman?”
    Because I want to. What kind of person wants to have children for the sole reason that they are a woman?

    “When you look at yourself in the mirror in the morning, do you see yourself through your own eyes, or through the eyes of the men that will look at you when you walk out the door?”
    This one really bothers me. I almost always look in the mirror through the eyes of people that will look at me – but not “men” that will look at me. If I am going for a job interview, I will make sure I dress appropriately. If I am going to a part, I will make sure I dress appropriately. Not because I want the men to look at me – but because I don’t want to be seen as a dag, or for people to think I made no effort. I don’t think this is wrong, and I don’t think it is feminism that will change it – because it’s not the fault of men.

    “The fact is, like it or not, you still live a world where gender matters.”
    Yes. Gender is always going to matter. It exists, and it is important.

    “A child will be born female in a country where she will persecuted for this random biological occurrence for the rest of her life”
    Unfortunately, yes. Feminism has not yet done its job all around the world. But in the Western world – it has. In fact it has gone so far, that many “feminists” advocate for women to have power over men, rather than them all being equal. That is why people hold up the women against feminism sign; they are not against equality.

    Like

  41. Fiona

    Perfectly said. The questions that a 2014 white western woman should ask herself are so true and take a slightly less obvious approach and one that requires some soul searching. Feminist action must continue for woman everywhere in all walks of life!

    Like

  42. Aletheia

    I was raped when I was 18, experienced domestic violence when I was 20 and was assaulted by my neighbour in my 30s. I also experienced gender discrimination and bullying whilst working for local government. There most certainly IS a need for feminism.

    I filed a formal complaint of bullying and harassment it was whitewashed. I became so ill I ended up loosing my job, becoming too sick to return. The bullying did not stop after my contract was terminated. In the year that followed the bullying continued and it was a year later I caught him committing fraud in my name and had evidence to take it to the police. Only after a police caution did the bullying finally cease.

    The assault I reported and it was whitewashed by the police. I’m now looking to be rehomed because of the ongoing harassment and antisocial behaviour of the neighbour who assaulted me.

    This is all with the UK. All my life I’ve experienced sexism against my gender and in all that time I’ve seen nothing improve. Damning statistic shown police are still not treating crimes against women seriously. This is in the 21st centuries. So yes, there really is still a place for feminism in the west and the east.

    Like

  43. Benjamin

    You should understand that the girl in the picture above is ALSO a victory for feminism. She obviously does not understand, been exposed to, or suffered from the treatment some women receive around the planet simply by virtue of being female. This is a good thing and is progress. I am sure over her lifetime she will still be confronted with injustice of gender intolerance. If it is not sufficient for her to ever feel like her life is less than what it could be then that is also a win.

    All my life I have believed in equity. Not equality. Equity between human beings. Not equality between gender, race, socio economics or any other clearly unequal states of being. This is doomed to failure and always will be as it keeps redefining an unsolvable problem instead of looking to the solution. Continual Identification of racism, sexism, masogyny, misogyny or any other form of intolerance perpetuates its existence and definition. The focus should change to a belief in equity and making inequity between genders (of which women are only one!) unacceptable. This allows an acceptance of our differences as a celebration. Women are not men. Men are not women. Each gender (and all genders in between) has wonderful strengths that should be nurtured and revered. We diminish ourselves as a species not celebrating our differences. This is no way condones using those differences to restrict access to equitable and fair treatment. As an example: maternity leave is a good thing. Equity says we must make access and room for pregnancy in the workplace. Do we take that away because it is not gender equal. (Yes, men get paternity leave but often not under the same conditions.)

    As a white middle aged male I am ideologically seen as ‘the problem’. I hate this. This is in and of itself discrimination. I lost a job I really enjoyed and was good at because my boss (a lesbian and staunch feminist) saw it as an ideal position to launch women into my industry and told me this to my face. This is equally unacceptable, in my view, I have been physically assaulted by 4 black men and 1 women simply for not being ‘black’ and being on their ‘turf’. Also unacceptable.

    I have a number of female friends who have expressed there dissatisfaction with feminism because they see it as a man hating, lunatic fringe. It seems strange to me that as a white middle aged man it falls to me to remind them what feminism has achieved for them. However then it occurs to me that if the ‘good fight’ was about ‘equity’ and ‘fariness’ and ‘respect’ instead of feminism then a much broader set of goals would be achieved that include feminist goals as well.

    One can only hope the world continues to move to greater enlightenment.

    Like

  44. ScholarGipsy

    Thank you for writing this. As someone who lives in a country where a woman is raped every 22 minutes, I find the Women Against Feminism tumblr insulting, to say the least. I’ve read a number of articles written by people who have called out those behind these posts, but what really surprises and worries me was the comments left by people on them. Many of those leaving comments blame aggressive, “bitchy” Western feminism for tainting the movement, I’m confused. What is “aggressive feminism” in the first place? And, why is aggressiveness a bad thing when it comes to demanding equality in every sphere of life? I’m trying to understand what exactly is so offensive and degrading about the supposed aggression that modern feminism is accused of deploying.

    I suppose a lot of the anger and outrage and frustration behind this odd idea that women must be against feminism stems from a fundamental misunderstanding of feminism, as you point out. Feminism is called FEMinism because men have retained control over every aspect of women’s lives for centuries. Men – in the form of religious institutions, monarchs, governments, law-makers, community leaders, fathers, brothers, husbands, employers – have controlled women’s bodies, behaviour and choices for centuries. That’s why feminism came to be – to fight for women’s right to agency, to demand the right to make those choices for ourselves. Men already – though they too operated within the framework of gendered social expectations and responded to the pressures generated therein – exercised that control over their own lives. Feminism does not seek to deny men their existing autonomy over themselves. I think it goes one step further – feminism in its present form is attempting to bring into question the very idea of gender as a determining force in the choices that people feel compelled to make. Feminism, at least the direction it has largely taken today, allows us to view ourselves as individual agents, capable of choosing any path at all – irrespective of gender.

    That seems laudable enough to me.

    Like

  45. Christian

    For me, the real question upon this anti feminism movement would be: why do feel people like they express on their card boards? Where does it come from? Is it just an opposition to change and the extra effords that come along with a critique of our system right now? Or might they also be influenced by the way people talked to them about feminism, like “you can not do this”, “you have to do that” etc. wich would not stimulate personal growth instead just replacing one form of oppression with another!
    I think we should take this whole thing as a reminder to always rethink our strategies and how we best could reach our goods!

    Like

  46. lottiewishnetwork

    Thank you for writing this – this message needs to be endlessly shared

    Like

  47. Andreas

    Oh please, quit pretending like feminism does jack shit to those women in Pakistan or India. Modern feminism is all about that there’s not enough women on some panel on a TV show or that someone made a sexist joke – example that you yourself provide. What women in countries you mentioned need is basic human rights, not feminism. You don’t help them with your slacktivism behind your keyboard.

    Like

  48. Laura

    I agree with the feminist movement. I agree with this article, however there are so called “feminists” out there that end up protesting against hooters bars. What about a woman’s right to sexualise themselves if they want to; personally it’s not my cup of tea but if feeling sexy to some is what they find fulfilling and they want to strut and a work place in tiny shorts, let them do it! otherwise the equal/human rights thing is just hypocritical. To be a feminist means protecting women’s rights.

    http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Bristol-s-Hooters-bar-goes-bust/story-15164870-detail/story.html

    Like

  49. Kate

    The women on this site are saying “I don’t need feminism” not “women in other countries don’t need feminism”. So why are you bringing other country’s treatment of women up as an issue when it has nothing to do with what the people you are talking to are saying? Also, are you actually trying to help women in other countries rather than just complaining about their treatment?

    Like