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A Response to ‘Women Against Feminism.’

Imagine this:

The year is 2014. You are a white Western woman. You wake up in the morning in a comfortably sized house or flat. You have a full or part-time job that enables you to pay your rent or mortgage. You have been to school and maybe even college or university as well. You can read and write and count. You own a car or have a driver’s licence. You have enough money in your own bank account to feed and clothe yourself. You have access to the Internet. You can vote. You have a boyfriend or girlfriend of your choosing, who you can also marry if you want to, and raise a family with. You walk down the street wearing whatever you feel like wearing. You can go to bars and clubs and sleep with whomever you want.

Your world is full of freedom and possibility.

Then you pick up a newspaper or go online. You read about angry women ranting about sexism and inequality. You see phrases like ‘rape-culture’ and ‘slut-shaming.’ You furrow your brow and think to yourself: ‘What are they so angry about? There is no such thing as sexism anymore.’

Now imagine this:

The year is 2013. You are a 25 year-old Pakistani woman. A few months ago, you married the man you love. A man you choose for yourself. You are also pregnant with his child. You see your life stretching out before you, filled with hope and happiness. Suddenly, you and your husband are dragged away from each other. You are both beaten with bricks and batons. You can’t fight back. You can’t escape. No one comes to help you. Through your fading vision, you look up, and look into the eyes of one of your assailants: into the eyes of your father.

The year is 2013. You are a 23 year-old Indian woman. You are a physiotherapy student with a promising career ahead of you. You are sitting on a private bus travelling home alone on a warm December evening. You gaze out of the window as the buildings of New Dheli rush past you and feel content. Suddenly, a blunt force hits the back of your head and you fall to the floor of the bus. A group of strange men are standing over you. They bring the metal bar down on you again and again and again until all you can taste is the blood filling up your mouth. You pray that you will die soon. And you do, but not then. You are raped, beaten, and tortured over and over again. Death is slow and agonising.

The year is 2014. You are a 13 year-old girl from Niger. You no longer live there though. You are now living in the neighbouring country Nigeria, sitting alone in small room on a small bed in a small apartment high above the city of Kano. You are not allowed to leave. Your stomach is swollen from the unwanted life growing inside of it. You had no choice. The father is a man in his 40s. He is a businessman. He has bought you as his wife. You were a penniless, uneducated girl when he came for you. You don’t know of any life you could have had. Neither did your family: just one less mouth for them to feed. You still have the body of a child, and it’s straining under the pressure from the one inside of you. You feel like you’re about to be split in two. You don’t wonder if you will survive the birth. A part of you doesn’t want to.

These are fictionalised accounts of real events that have happened to real women living in our world today. They follow the past 250 years of women and men campaigning for women to be given equal rights to men to prevent these kinds of injustices and abuses on the grounds of gender taking place. Over the course of this time, campaigners – Feminists, both female and male – have been locked up, beaten, tortured, and even killed, in the pursuit of equality. They did this with pen and ink and print; they did this with their voices; they did this with their bodies; they did this with art and music; they did in courts of law and halls and houses of government that they fought be to allowed into.

They did this so that women would no longer been seen as property, livestock, breeding machines, sex objects, punching bags, or infantile morons. They did this not just for themselves, but also for their daughters, and their daughters, and their daughters for generations to come. They did this for women they would never meet – women who lived across countries, across vast oceans, across the entire globe, and even across time.

They did this so that women like me – a white Western woman – could attend school and university; to learn to read, write, and think critically; to gain a degree; to get a job and be paid an equal salary to a man in the same position; and to sit here with my own computer and type all of this.

Feminism is a movement for freedom, equality, choice, love, compassion, respect, solidarity, and education. We may argue, we may disagree, we may struggle to understand the choices and perspectives of others sometimes, but these core beliefs of the movement have never changed, and they never will.

That is why I am a Feminist.

If you feel that you have so far lived your life unaffected by even the mildest form of sexism – anything from feeling uncomfortable when a man catcalls you in the street, to feeling scared walking home alone at night in a secluded area – and are treated with love and respect by every man in your life, then to you I say: I’m glad for you. If you don’t think you need feminism, then that is a victory for the movement. You have fulfilled all those dreams that every suffragette being force-fed in prison and every ‘witch’ burnt at the stake dreamed you would one day.

But perhaps take a second to consider the life of the Pakistani woman who was beaten to death by her own family for marrying a man of her choosing. Or the life of the Indian woman who was raped, beaten, and murdered on a bus by a gang of men. Or the life of the little girl in Niger who was sold to a man more than twice her own age and forced to carry a baby that may kill her to deliver. Do they still need feminism?

And perhaps take a second to consider this too: Even in our liberal, Western world, why do women still only fill 24% of senior management jobs? Why are more women than men domestically abused or even killed every week at the hands of their male partner or ex-partner? Why is there still a pay gap (in the UK specifically) of 15% for women doing the same jobs and working the same hours as men?

And what about on a cultural level? Have you ever noticed how comedy panel shows usually only have one female panellist compared to 4-5 male ones? That almost every dieting product on the market is solely aimed at women? How a lot of newspapers and advertising campaigns will use a sexualised or pornographic image of a woman to sell news or products that have nothing to do with sex?

Or perhaps on a personal level: Do you choose to wear certain clothes because you want to or because you feel ‘unfeminine’ if you don’t? Do you choose to cover yourself up because you want to or because you feel ashamed or intimidated by a man looking at your body? Do you shave your legs and underarm hair because you want to or because you will look ‘ugly’ if you don’t? Did you parents dress you in pink as a baby because they liked the colour or because you were born a girl? Do you want to have children because you want to or because you are a woman?

When you look at yourself in the mirror in the morning, do you see yourself through your own eyes, or through the eyes of the men that will look at you when you walk out the door?

The fact is, like it or not, you still live a world where gender matters. Where gender controls not just the entire course of your life – but the lives of women all over the world. Every second, a child will be born female in a country where she will persecuted for this random biological occurrence for the rest of her life. So before you hold up your anti-Feminist placard proudly and smile at your own sense of empowerment, think not what Feminism can do for you, but what it can do for that one girl. She needs someone to stand up for her. That someone could be you.

UPDATE: Click here to read my follow up to this article: ‘Equalism: The Feminist Alternative?’

This is a response to ‘Women Against Feminism’ groups on Tumblr and Facebook.

The stories of the women mentioned in this post were sourced from these sites:

http://feminist.org/blog/index.php/2014/05/29/pakistani-woman-stoned-to-death-for-marrying-a-man-of-her-own-choosing/

http://feminist.org/blog/index.php/2013/01/02/indias-tipping-point-death-of-rape-victim-sparks-global-outrage/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-27619295

Other facts and statistics were sourced from here:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/international-womens-day-2014-the-shocking-statistics-that-show-why-it-is-still-so-important-9177211.html

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  1. Siddiqua

    Sorry to put the kosh in here, but as a confirmed feminist I found this article preachy and emotive, and a little immature.

    The examples the writer gives of women being brutalised are isolated incidents (ok, not so sure of the deal in Niger, but Pakistan and India, definitely. I’m of Indo-Pak descent). Not every Indian woman is dragged off a bus and raped. Women don’t fear getting on buses in India as if this is an endemic problem. Not every wife in Pakistan fears repercussions as a result of a love marriage. There are many successful love marriages in Pakistan, possibly because the parents have taken credit for the arrangement, possibly hiding that the bride had any involvement at all!

    Whilst there certainly is a more oppressive culture towards women in these cultures on a more mundane, restriction of choice and opportunity level, the fact this writer uses the examples she does, reduces her argument to something that comes across as almost ‘malhysteric’. It’s the voice of a ‘young’, middle class white woman who possibly needs a little less academic education and a little more life experience to get things into perspective.

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  2. rcv

    I think that in most of the west, equality has been mostly achieved. As a result, most of the “moderate” feminists who sought equality put down their protest banners and got on with leading a life of equality with men, leaving the more extremist cases to be the face of feminism.

    Is equality achieved worldwide? No. Some countries are far behind – and usually they’re far behind in everything, not just gender equality. So, definitely more effort should be placed on trying to ensure that equality becomes universal,

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  3. Antropovich

    I have few problems with this article too.
    1. Say you want to help third world women, by doing what – only focusing on them?
    The best example of this is the “Boko Harem” case of abducting 200 girls. We had #bringourgirlshome from Michelle Obama. What was missing from that array of hashtags, are #protectTheBoysToo #LetsSendCoffinsForBoys #OhWaitTheyWereBurnedAlive.

    Boko Harem had previously murdered, burned only male student schools too and we wake up when girls are abducted? Not to mention that the main source for soldiers for these kinds of groups are boy soldiers. Everything is ok with that?

    Imagine the boy soldier growing up – first being forced to do atrocities and if he survives the the years and somehow isnt part of the group anymore – what will he do? Start a normal life without inflicting any violence?

    And that is why I say to hell with helping 200 girls – that is not the stem issue. The cycle of violence is! I haven’t yet seen a movement that would stop the cycle… only save few lives here and there.. pointless. The groups just kill and abduct and murder and rape another number of people.

    So just talking about “what about the women in 3rd world countries” is utterly bullshit unless you also bring the girls to another country. (you will only maybe save them, leaving most of the people behind). What an utterly dishonest way.

    Unless you (currently feminists) start to view the topics as a whole, you will never fix anything.

    2. All the things feminism has advocated and accomplished aren’t missing a darker side either.
    a) if a man calls police because of DV inflicted by his wife and gets arrested because he is larger, then dont you think that is unfair ? Oh yes, its the law.
    b) Don’t you think it’s unfair when the mother makes bogus accusations of molestation, DV. Even when the accusations end up unproven or even proved that the mother lied to get upper hand in divorce – she is not penalized. Unproven accusations still weigh the decision toward the mother. – Is this fair?
    c) When during the rape cases the “presumption of innocence” is turned into “prove your innoncence” and the burden of proof is 51% (for murders its 90%+) – Is that fair? To get the aledged rapists that way? And what if the man is later proven innocent, because the woman lied so she could excuse some trivial problem (grades dropping, cheating on boyfriend)…. and what if that innoncent man got raped in prison? – is this fair?
    I’m not saying that let rapists go free, but to even start to gnaw-away the rights of other people just to get conviction? – that is the LAST place to start.
    d) etc.

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  4. Heather

    All these girls ‘who don’t need feminism’ they wouldn’t be where they are today if it wasn’t for feminism.
    Thank you for writing this artical I was so saddened and scared that women could think so but I am glad to know others feel how I do.

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  5. Mirko1177

    Interesting discussion..strongly agree with positives of feminism and understand there is a spectrum of discourses that stem from the movement and ideology that needs to be brought more into the mainstream media. I am happy to read that the discussion on “the white woman’s burden” in relation to overt patriarchal cultures in third world or underdeveloped societies is being raised. My experience indicates that when the traditional power balance is disputed there is a tendency for violence as no one likes to give up power easily. Who provides the needed adequate and sustainable security for women and girls when the western world leaves them on their own? Who will stand at their door protecting when women and girls have to face their communities or even their own families when seeking equality on a daily basis. No police force or security force that I am aware of, not even most western ones are truly emancipated enough to set the right example..including after years of UN-sponsored gender sensitivity training. Can feminism reconcile this security issue in relation to the promotion of equality for women and girls and western interventions?. Which right trumps the other?

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  6. Sarah

    I don’t think you understand what feminism is.

    Feminism isn’t standing up against gang rape in India. Being against these you rhetorically point out is called being a human being.

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  7. shakespearescholarinprogress

    Reblogged this on shakespearescholarinprogress and commented:
    Great piece on the ‘movement’ ‘Women Against Feminism’.

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  8. dhelite

    Reblogged this on adeyeyeelijah's Blog.

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  9. Jemima

    Supporting women’s rights and advocating for feminism are the same by definition, and anyone who doesn’t support equal rights for women and men is ridiculous. However, although you might fit the definition of a feminist, it doesn’t necessarily mean you choose to identify as it.
    For example, I choose not to identify as a feminist because I see youtube/tumblr/twitter ‘feminists’ who go around saying sexist and misinformed comments. Because of this, I feel that a better word is needed which also includes men’s rights, because there is also discrimination against men, and people feel that by only having feminism as a recognized term is excluding a whole gender and all of the issues relating to them.
    As for history, feminism was absolutely necessary and people should always be grateful for what has been done in the pas to help women. Of course so much work still needs to be done in order to get equal rights for women and men in this country and others.
    However, by not choosing to identify with modern day feminists and to be against their cause, rather than against what feminism originally stood for, does not mean that you are against fighting for current women’s rights (as well as men’s rights), it just means that you think SOME modern day feminists are increasing the gender divide rather that fixing it.

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  10. Cabblar Toreth

    I vote we remove Gender from the passports.

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  11. Frances Mitchell.

    The article and all the comments are Fantastic ! Thank You.
    We are so fortunate to have the freedom of opportunity to voice an opinion and have it heard and read without fear !
    We just want everyone who walks this planet to be afforded the same consideration regardless of gender, race ,social status or age.
    Remember everyday to give a stranger and a friend , kindness ,help and consideration ,their shoes (if they have any) could so easily be made to fit your feet !

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  12. eshachaman

    Whilst I strongly agree with the points raised in this article, and also deplore people who label themselves as Anti-Feminists, the opening line enraged me. As a non-white western woman reading ‘This is 2014. You are a white Western woman’ stung me, and instantly excluded me from what you went on to list as the joys of being a white woman living in the West. You immediately committed the same mistake that mainstream feminist movements have made all along; excluding non-white women living in the Western world and also underprivileged white women. You open your argument with a stuffy stereotype of the ‘white western woman’, and identify those privileges that you suggest are only exercised and enjoyed by only those who are white. But you are fatally missing a blind spot that current and future Feminist movements cannot ignore anymore if there is to be any progression. As you quite rightly point out, this is 2014, and believe it or not there are non-white women living in the western world like myself who wake up in the morning in a comfortably-sized flat, who has a job that enables me to pay my rent, food, clothes and holidays, who has been to school and university, who can read, count and write, who has access to the internet and can vote. My world is also full of freedom and possibility. So why couldn’t you have simply written ‘This is 2014. You are a western woman/You are a woman’, without having having to flag up the race card? There are both white and non-white women in the western world, as well as the developing world, who are denied basic rights such as education, eligibility to vote, independence, economic freedom, employment, freedom of expression and are demoted because of their class, race, sexuality, culture, and religion. Binaries such as white/privilege and non-white/underprivileged are futile in current feminist arguments, because sexism blights all of our lives whether you are white, non-white, upper class, working class, western or non-western. It has become far more complicated than that, and it always has been. Fourth-wave Feminism should not be dictated by white, western feminists pointing out the plights of non-white women around the world when progress is still to be made in western societies. I, too am a feminist, and I have declared this since I was a teenager. And I want all who believe in Feminism, whatever your sex, race and class to stand together to create an inclusive movement to ensure nobody is side-lined because they supposedly do not share the same privileges of ‘white western women’. It is so important to acknowledge international issues regarding sexual violence and subjugation that are damaging women’s lives across the world, and we cannot ignore their voices. But it is extremely patronising to position your white, western female self on a pedestal in comparison when there are many strong female voices arising in these various international communities against issues such as sexual violence, child marriage, FGM, denial of education, political representation and abduction. And we should listen to them, support and join them rather than pity them from afar, because some of these issues also exist in western societies.

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  13. Frances Mitchell.

    Thank You ……

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  14. Natasha Estelle

    Oh no just that the term ‘feminist’ is widely taken advantage of by whiny women of the privileged, abused over and over again against men who are mostly good enough to acknowledge that sexism is not the right way to do it. I’m sorry, did you say you feel degraded when a guy calls you cute when you also have your own perception of what kind of guys would be deemed cute? Do these girls think it’s too misogynistic for men to rate girls between any amount out of ten while making rather crass comments about their counterparts? Most of these girls are just full of themselves without actually thinking about who feminism should take priority of.

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  15. lottiewishnetwork

    Reblogged this on and commented:
    A great reminder that we should be thankful for all we have

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  16. kazybelle

    Reblogged this on kazybelle's Blog and commented:
    Thank you for your insight… makes me think!!! I don’t do the underarms tho!!!

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  17. B.

    Thank you so much for this article. It rings a bell deep inside, and it rings true.

    I took the liberty of translating it to French and reblogging it on our feminist/parenting blog, so it could reach even more people, as the message it sends is so in tune with my own thoughts and our blog’s perspective.
    I also took the liberty of translating Mia’s comment, as I think it will perfectily relate to young women who don’t quite realize how many dayly little fights they have to face.
    A big big THANK YOU, really.
    B.
    http://vmleblog.canalblog.com/archives/2014/07/30/30333624.html
    https://www.facebook.com/VengeusesMasquees?ref_type=bookmark

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  18. Alex

    Brilliant article, really reminds people how much feminism is still needed in the world.

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  19. Michelle Styles

    Reblogged this on aghostdancer and commented:
    “They did this so that women like me – a white Western woman – could attend school and university; ”

    Actually school for all children was a native american concept adopted by the settlers in america. All children boys and girls, rich and poor attended school long before feminism. Many women attended colleges even centuries before femenism but then like today they were the ones who could “afford” it.

    “to learn to read, write, and think critically; to gain a degree; ”

    Already covered this above. Even today if you can’t afford it you can;t get it. So today like 100 years ago the issue is cost not sex.

    “to get a job and be paid an equal salary to a man in the same position; ”

    Negotiate, negotiate, negotiate. Everything in accepting a job is negotiation is key to your salary I find most women are shy or quiet and just accept what is offered. I and my GF both said no to the first offer and countered. We both make considerably more because of it. She got an extra weeks vacation and 15,000 dollars as well as a performance bonus. Me I got more flexible hours and 5,000 more money.

    “and to sit here with my own computer and type all of this.”

    Women in the west have always been able to own property. Only in stone aged cultures like you named can men oppress women like that. Think about it in Afghanistan they shot a girl in the face for demanding an education. Everywhere you see a true war on women it is in a Muslim dominated area.

    here in the west I find I have more rights than a man. Think about it this way. if I hit a man the police come and admonish him for being a wimp. If I look at a guy at work and say looking good sexy he can’t get me fired for “sexual harassment” and probably wouldn’t go to HR he’d take the compliment. In a divorce I would get the kids, child support and alimony almost by default.

    The guys think of me and Michelle as pretty cool because they can say damn blue is certainly your color, ot that sweater looks great on you, or that hair color really brings out your eyes and we don’t get offended.

    Now was there a need for feminism? Yeah there still is but feminists today have lost sight of the real war. At one point we needed to show we are equal in all respects. That war is done here and it’s time to turn our eyes to help the oppressed. We also need to teach our daughters speak up for yourself because no one else will or should have to.

    Teach them to negotiate and speak up. Simple solution to the “wage gap”.

    What do all these have in common?

    Muslim men doing violence against women.

    Feminist?

    Yet more on the true war on women

    A little about honor killings and head scarfs.

    The culture of rape

    Islams war on women the only real war on women.

    She says “I am not a feminist as today modern feminism is more about basing men than fighting for women’s rights. No I am a warrior and proud to be part of Naked Jihad/”

    She’s right modern (western) feminists are more concerned about free birth control which they view as a right. They are more concerned about political ideology than real womens suffrage.

    See her post here: http://aghostdancer.wordpress.com/2014/04/16/why-i-am-not-a-feminist-i-am-a-freedom-fighter/

    Good post but feminists of today are on the wrong path and that is why I too and not a feminist I am a freedom fighter.

    Femenism is dead because the women who started it and people like NOW who propogate it have fallen off the deep end.

    And comments like this kill it.
    “feminism is still very much needed in the west (white independent female citizens category included) because your countries have laws like this:http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/29/criminalising-pregnant-women-dystopia-freedom?CMP=fb_gu . the hobby lobby tragedy was not too long ago too.”

    Birth control is NOT A RIGHT! Learn to pay your own way. Do you see men begging for us to pay for their condoms? Their erection meds? Their hair lose treatments? Answer NO. Why? Because it’s not a right and NO ONE has denied you anything. Don’t like hobby lobby or benefits offered at an employer? Work some place else. Damn that was simple.

    Sarah/Michelle Freedom Fighters for real rights. Equality in Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Anything else is not a right it’s a want. Learn the difference!

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  20. JSOFNDF

    Would be OK were it not for the fact that Western feminism cares more about Blurred Lines and oversexualised women in video games than it does about say, Islam. Probably because Western feminists aren’t as affected by Islam, but they are affected (or claim to be) by Blurred Lines. So if their movement actually cared at all about the real plight of women in other countries who are truly oppressed, then it would be an OK post. But they really, really don’t care, and would much rather rant about Robin Thicke

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  21. Bekah Ng

    Reblogged this on Bekah Ng and commented:
    Thought-provoking and hard-hitting. The women freely expressing how feminism is irrelevant to them can thank their freedom of speech and opinion to the notion they despise and ridicule. It’s often hard to see that the positive effects of male and females supporting feminism spread further afield than your own doorstep.

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  22. sasyathakur

    Wonderful article!!! I completely agree with what you feel…im an indian…i know exactly what gender equality means to an indian woman..

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  23. sasyathakur

    Reblogged this on sasyaartblog and commented:
    Wonderful article !! A must read for all women… and men who believe in equality of women..

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  24. Mary Ellen K

    Thank you for taking the time to write a coherent and poignant response to “Women Against Feminism.” Many people are blinded by their frustration, I think, and cannot form a better retort than “you don’t understand what feminism is!”

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  25. Mina Montgomery-Matosi

    Your points are well taken. However, Western white feminists rarely mention the injustices that women of colour in Western societies are subjected to — and often by white women defining themselves as feminists. These white feminists must certainly realise that they enjoy privileges in education and employment opportunities, in higher pay and in better living conditions than less privileged women of other races in their own countries, but we don’t hear them speaking up about this disparity and discrimination that they benefit from.
    Moreover, logically, the overall average of differences in pay might just take into consideration the lower salaries that women of colour are paid; which are usually not only less than those of their male counterparts but often less than that those of their white female colleagues doing the same job. Until Western white feminists speak up for all women — those in faraway places as well as those in their communities — their attested convictions, commitment and outrage will be viewed by many with suspicion.

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    1. Sawyer

      This.

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      1. jhan1969

        Eccch. This just HAD to devolve into a discussion of how bad black people have it.

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      2. Sawyer

        No, just a discussion on how feminism didn’t, doesn’t and hasn’t saved the world for every vagina in America.

        It’s so easy to ignore black issues when you’re not black or a member of America’s minority… so easy to ignore your brothers and sisters who are in need.

        Do you understand that we’re not different from you but that being treated differently in the past and even in the present is a RIGHT NOW issue for us?

        It doesn’t go away. Why do you think we keep talking about it? Maybe it’s because people like you don’t listen or don’t care.

        Do you understand that we’re the same but that we have fears that you cannot comprehend?

        So, tell me this, why the heck do you care when gender is discriminated against, but not race? Why the heck aren’t our issues important to you?

        Must be great to be able to dismiss our grievances, our concerns, our pains as nothing more than a crumbling soapbox that is insubstantial but that we’re holding on to with all our might just to be able to put down white people.

        Where is your empathy? Your compassion? How can you look at a lost child and feel hurt in your heart for them, or a woman across seas who is being brutalized but cannot find concern in your heart for your dark skinned neighbors?

        But, I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised.

        When we mention our issues, the conversation always devolves into us being too sensitive and really having no problems at all.

        Just remember: What compassion and judgement you mete to others is the same that will be given back to you.

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      3. jhan1969

        Black people need to stop blaming everyone else for their problems. I’m well aware of social problems throughout ethnic groups. I’m probably more educated about it than you are. But really, what am I gonna do about it? What is ANYONE gonna do about it? You could give every black person in America $100,000 and there would STILL be the same exact problems within black culture ten years from now. Any change for black people has to come from WITHIN. You can’t change other people; only yourself.

        Tell black people to stop having kids out of wedlock. Pat Moynihan was right in 1965; the collapse of the traditional family in black culture was the worst thing that ever happened to black people. But try to tell that to lefties and liberals – who’ve been out to kill traditional values since the early 60’s!! Tell race-mongering morons like Michael Eric Dyson to stop lionizing criminals like twice convicted sex offender Tupaq Shakur.

        What am I supposed to do – fall into a stupor whenever a black person says the word ‘slavery?’ EVERY RACE ON THE PLANET was subjected to slavery at some point in history. Slavery did not begin with the United States. In fact, the United States effectively ENDED SLAVERY FOR THE ENTIRE WESTERN HEMISIPHERE.

        MOVE ON. Take care of your business. And quit bugging people like me about slavery. I studied it ad infinitum. I’m not gonna forget about it. I know it was here. But there’s nothing anyone can do about it now. It’s seriously WEAK for black people to blame black social problems on slavery. That s__t happened a long time ago.

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      4. Sawyer

        Your response literally made me roll my eyes. I can already tell that you’re not the type of person who can engage in respectful discourse, so, this will be my last response to you.

        Are there problems in the African American community? Of course there are and I talk to my mother often about those things. But those problems can be directly traced back to slavery and the lasting effects that social injustice has had on blacks as a people.

        Why are there so many thugs and gangsters? Because black people feel discriminated against and disenfranchised, like we have to work twice and three times as hard to get the same things as whites. (Proven.) Or maybe it’s because white felons get hired more than clean black college graduates (Proven). Or maybe it’s because being black in America actually DOES set you back (PROVEN)!

        I am not an ignorant, black stereotype that is probably playing in your seriously misinformed and twisted mind, I am educated, my mother was educated, my family is educated. I have not so much as had a parking ticket. I am not a gang banger and I do not have any children out of wedlock.

        Check your mind: Your discrimination is showing.

        Stop believing all the hype. Not every black person is going that way. As a matter of fact, Mr. “I’m so Educated” guess what? BLACK WOMEN are the most educated group of people in the United States ACROSS RACE AND GENDER.

        Guess you didn’t know that while you were going on and on about how horrible black people are and how we’ve brought all the brutality we’ve experienced in the PRESENT against ourselves.

        Check.

        Your.

        Mind.

        You aren’t better than anyone around here and the only reason you can think the way you do is because your skin is (probably) white.

        But okay, you’ll believe what you want to justify your anger, rage, and lack of compassion.

        But my last statement still stands.

        Oh and while you’re at it, since we should just … you know … forget slavery, why don’t you tell the Jews to forget about the Holocaust. It was so long ago. Oh yeah and forget about 911. That’s history. Tell the Chinese to forget about the Forgotten Holocaust too. That was AGES ago. Tell anyone whose people have ever been brutalized across time to FORGET IT.

        To ask any one of those groups to forget what happened to them is ignorance of the highest kind, so much so that it’s a bit mind boggling. Tell you what: Think about the person you love the most … got him or her?

        Great, now sit back and allow some random stranger to abuse him or her for a great majority of her life.

        Got it?

        Free her.

        Watch how her life is shaped by the events that happened to her, how it affects everyone around her.

        Are you watching?

        After that, explain to me how you feel the affects of your loved one being brutalized decades later.

        That’s my cue.

        I’ll come to you and explain that you need to let it go and that you should both stop blaming the world for your problems.

        Because it’s that simple right? And that’s just one person in your lifetime. That’s not a whole group of people being SLAVES for GENERATIONS.

        And NEWSFLASH, all slavery is not equal. American slavery is so “special” because of its level of brutality. Slavery in Africa wasn’t like that. I’d think that if you were as educated as you claimed, you’d know that.

        As a matter of fact, I’d think if you were as educated as you claimed, I wouldn’t have to explain these things to you.

        I don’t know what happened to you to make you this way, but I hope that it gets better for you because I suppose there’s no reason for me to respond with bitterness and anger just because you do.

        Anyway, I am not impressed by your argument because, frankly, it was unimpressive.

        Maybe you should examine that.

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      5. jhan1969

        But of course you can write off EVERY black conservative who describes how they clawed their way out of poverty to success. And you can ignore EVERY ONE of these black people and call them Uncle Toms and house slaves and sell-outs because they don’t tow the lefty-line. It’s ok for a black person to talk, as long as that person sticks to the liberal script.

        Forget the fact that black kids who work hard in school are picked on for ‘acting white.’ Forget the fact that hip-hop culture has destroyed black America. Forget that we ALL lionize former crack dealers like Jay-Z and irresponsible sports stars who act like criminals despite their success. ‘Cause that stuff means nothing.

        Forget the fact that I can walk into the projects three blocks from my house, try and discuss any one of a handful of famous black authors, and NO ONE THERE will have heard of any of them. Blame that on white people too. Don’t blame the Marxist psychos and hippie washouts who destroyed our public education system. It’s completely MY FAULT that I can’t find a black person within a mile radius of my house who has heard of Zora Neal Hurston.

        Forget all that. I’m just supposed to agree with you, or else I’m a racist.

        It’s people like YOU who are deaf and blind. You insist on maintaining hegemonic control over the issue of race. Give up that control, or find black culture in the SAME EXACT PLACE 20 years from now.

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  26. breakfastwiththebeatles

    Reblogged this on Breakfast with the Beatles and commented:
    Educate yourselves on Feminism for women everywhere in the world !

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  27. Zita

    White women do not hold the exclusive rights to privilege and women of colour do not have the exclusive rights to poverty, distress, humiliation and torture. As long as feminism takes this stance I struggle to see why I should be party to an ‘ism’ that perpetuates separatism along lines of gender, colour, class and geographical location. Why would I belong to a movement that excludes so many women and men or minimises their experience in it’s rhetoric? Either feminism needs to evolve or clarify it’s expression, for sadly, behind every exclusion there is a murderous impulse. Feminism may well have liberated many women on paper but has it really truly liberated them in their beliefs? From what I have read in this article I feel no sense of a warm hand reaching out to me, no sense of the feminine power that can unite. Everyday I do for women, myself and others and I am deeply humble and grateful for what many women have done for me. Many of my greatest teachers and liberators were not feminists, nor did they use any kind of label to differentiate or separate themselves, they simply were and remain beautiful extraordinary people motivated by love, appreciation and respect for all life. They taught me well. I am not a feminist and I am not a “woman against feminism.” In my experience “isms’ create the greatest schisms of all. I am simply me, just like everybody else. I choose to be loyal to the common unity of people, all people. Equality for all people no exceptions and no exclusions. When I hear feminism offer that, then I will know that a shift towards love and unity has occurred. The line between victim and perpetrator is rarely if ever as clear as we would like to believe, it’s trajectory rarely follows a path that is as straight as “feminism” suggests. I respect each person’s right to their own view and trust that wise women will understand and appreciate mine without recompense or judgement. I stand by and support unconditional love, acknowledgement and compassion for the full spectrum of the human experience. Hurt people hurt people, let victim and perpetrator, man and woman stand side by side put their isms and schisms aside to heal their wounds and improve the circumstances for us all now and for future generations to come.

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  28. RIa

    This was so beautiful it left tears top my eyes

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  29. sonofabbasblog

    I’m uneasy with the third world focus, while appreciating that they are from real accounts, I feel that feminism is important and one under emphasised thing is the role men have to play in it as we all need to work together to challenge sexism.

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  30. elletea102

    Reblogged this on Elle in Burgh and commented:
    Beautiful piece though it’s sad it even needed to be written. I’m proud of being a feminist and was ignorant of the fact that some women aren’t.

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  31. A Response to ‘Women Against Feminism.’ | Edinblogs

    […] Originally posted on iwantedwings: […]

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  32. mrsbehaviour

    I am not a feminist. I am an equalist. While I sympathize with the goals of feminism, I loathe the term. WE are not free of discrimination when the very term used to describe the problem is divisive and does not recognize that equality means a lack of difference between the genders. The girl raped on the bus? That is a crime against a person, not only a crime against a woman. The girl forced to marry a much older man? That is a crime against a person, against a child and against a woman. It is probably also a crime against a lower class, against an economic state, against a particular community. Identifying only that a woman was the victim whitewashes the other issues. Equality means never ever identifying discrimination due to a single cause; equality means holding everyone to the same standard. Feminism means holding women up as different.

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  33. zebrabajz

    Reblogged this on Zebrabajz and commented:
    Amazing response to the Women Against Feminism movement. Absolutely amazing!

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  34. Anders

    I can see the sense in this article, and i like the original idea of feminism. I am very por-equal rights for everybody, and i believe that everybody should have the freedom to live as they chose which i feel is one of the original ideas of feminism. However the reason that i will not sympatysie with feminism as it is today is becouse that feminism has moved from a freedom loving ideology to the opposite. the (primarily scandinavian) feminism of today want’s to ban strip clubs, they wan’t to remove commercials they feel are to sexy and so on and so forth. I don’t believe banning things has anything to do with feminism. The women who chose to works as underwear modesl and strppers should also have the right to chose that way of living. and there are also male strippers and underwear models.

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  35. pocketfulofclary

    I really enjoyed reading this. Thank you for sharing your insight on this topic and thank you for speaking out from your heart so honestly, but without denigrating or insulting the people who don’t necessarily share the same viewpoint as you do.

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  36. dannylbate

    Reblogged this on Allzumenschliches and commented:
    Intelligently written and so full of beauty.

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  37. Haven

    These examples given are of crimes and violence, not feminism. The definition of feminism is too widely misunderstood and therefore these people on social media who are against it are entitled to their opinions. We should all be fighting for safety and justice first…not about not needing a man to open a door for you.

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  38. wolfmachismo

    I think that feminism is a term that certainly applies to the world at large, but you really needn’t go much farther than your own backyard to see signs of sexisms even if you are a white westerner. The extremist tales are certainly heartbreaking but 1 out of 3 women in America are sexually assaulted during their college years (if they’re lucky enough to go) and the majority of these crimes are brushed under the rug or never reported. You really can’t wear whatever you want because you/ I will be judged based on the length of my skirt in a court of law, and the truth is that while women may be self-sufficient these days they’re still making less than men in almost all fields besides sex work, in porn females are the star performers, thats one example of rape culture.

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    1. Traverse Davies

      1 in 3? Where did you get that from? I have heard 1 in 4, and seen ample evidence that it’s bull. I’ve seen 1 in 5, and that one I don’t have the same level of evidence that it’s bull, but I have never seen 1 in 3 before.

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  39. wolfmachismo

    Just the mere fact that women shy away from the term feminism or feminist is proof of rape culture, male domination, what have you. The notion that purely standing for something that is other than the patriarchal norm is in itself innately negative and is WHY feminism exists.

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  40. missywill

    Reblogged this on the beard & the bride and commented:
    Not really top of mind as much for me as I go about my day, but a reminder like this is worth sitting and pondering about as a woman or, if you’re a man, your female loved ones.

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  41. Feminism: The Dirty Word | ALT Magazine

    […] post written on WordPress blog “I Wanted Wings” ignited the debate even further. After drawing attention to the “Women Against Feminism”, the […]

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  42. Splange Stark

    I actually teared up a little reading this. Thank you for such a brilliantly put together post. I totally agree with everything you’ve said, and will also be sharing this.

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  43. jojo

    I understand that if you are a victim already, somewhere in your mind or struggling with the matter of course of women being equal treated in every niche of life, you see feminism as something else the system just made up to make you feel more like a victim.Yes in the western world it seems that we reached a point of equality, but if you look in the niches of working conditions or listen to your male friends talking about other women, there i can see is still a lot sexism and reification. I guess the attitude amount feminism is depended on how you define it for yourself, how it fits into your lifestyle, personality and how you see the world.

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  44. Augure

    Two things: Original feminism and corrupted feminism.

    Feminism is something that was needed in the past, when constitutionally or legally, women didn’t have the same right. Now they have MORE right than men.

    The problem is feminism today is just a tool of propaganda, for oppressing men. And because of the particular form (or rather audience) it touches, Feminism has done more damage than any other movement in such a small time, the backlash will be enormous.

    And the providencial (and disgusting success) of 50 Shades of Grey, who is just one of the thousands of feminist contradiction, will accelerate the dawn of anti-feminist, which is a smart rejection of today’s feminist, but more importantly, misogyny, that will skyrocket to new high and nobody will do anything or hear anything about it so much feminism has lost any credibility.

    Then maybe in 2 decades, when things have flatten, way more western women have been raped or beaten and neither justice or the public opinion take it seriously, maybe it will be the start for a new genuine feminism.

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  45. bodhi

    My mother, a white woman in the Great Lakes region of the US, wasn’t allowed to get a credit card, a mortgage, or own property in her own name without a man co-signing – until the 1980s. I am an attorney with my own home, credit cards, etc. – because of feminism and a mother who fought for my rights. My “father” and “grandfather” (loosely using these terms) beat us, beat my mother until her neck and back were broken, and the police told her in front of me that she shouldn’t have pissed of her husband – she had clothes on her back, food on the table. This was through the 1990s. I was handcuffed because, as I tried to keep my mother conscious until the ambulance arrived, I was told we were “talking in code and conspiring against him.” I had to, with the help of the ER docs, sneak my mother out of the hospital because she was going to be arrested for assault against my “father” until the docs could convince the police of the trauma my mother faced and the likelihood of the events as they unfolded. We literally had to run from these men, escape from them, and while my mother ultimately died due to her injuries and I have PTSD, we got away because of the rights secured us from the women’s rights movements and feminism.
    Feminisim is “the radical notion that women are equal.” Not superior. Not ignoring the other problems that men or boys people of any color or ethnicity or religion or socioeconomic condition or whatever demographic face. Contrary to other statements, feminism at its core is and was one of the most inclusive movements, but one of the most divided due to ignorance, as we can see today…when women condemn the advancement of other women, other PEOPLE, we are all doomed. This infighting contributes to the reasons the greatest global slavery market is sex workers (manly girls, though there are definitely boys as well) – because some women not only support it but often run the rings, and men (and some women) believe girl children are less than nothing and can be sold/ bartered/ etc.. It’s why those living in poverty across the globe are predominately women and children. Why women are categorically raped, beaten, molested, and abused, and it’s considered normative. Women, girls, are seen as “less than” still. Again, not ignoring that boys and men face horrors, too – feminism in its roots fought for the rights of all, just noted the grave disparity females face and worked, and continues to work, for equality for all.

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  46. Banana

    No. I don’t care for the guilt trip and I refuse to let you label me as a victim. I have every right to not be a feminist and I’m not going to let other women tell me what to believe. You don’t know me and you don’t know what’s best for me, so don’t you DARE try to speak on behalf of all women because at least this one doesn’t agree. Surely feminists can understand that “no” means “no?”

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  47. Jenny Mundy

    It’s in the genes – men dominate. It will never change. It’s nature. It’s like asking nature to stop causing earthquakes and tsunami’s. Look at every other species on the planet – exactly the same. Bar a few where the female eats the male after reproducing but anyway..

    Us women now live in a world (at least in the UK and many other countries) where we are able to chase and follow any dream we can where most (smart, moral) people will encourage you and not judge you. It’s not a matter of equality because the law dictates that women and men are not to be judged differently now – but the aim should be to educate people to accept women as individuals who may want to do as ‘men typically’ do. And let’s be honest this is a small minority of ignorant idiots who are probably racist too, that will call you out and judge you. But that’s down to poor parenting and a bad environment – I don’t think society has it wrong at all (especially in the UK).

    In terms of wages, which many people mention, it just so happens men possess the qualities needing to be successful in certain (a lot) of careers paths…
    How many women do you know are domineering or assertive as a women?
    There is no sexism here, just generics…
    If you want better pay, go out there, work for it and grab it. I have. I didn’t sit on my arse and wonder ‘why do men get more than me’. I started to learn and develop the skills my competitors had (male, female, black, white) and outdo them. And that’s how you get paid more than everyone else… It’s only yourself letting you down. If you want more money – there’s nothing stopping you.

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  48. Empryaen

    Reblogged this on empryaen and commented:
    incredible writing/rationalization here, my friends.

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  49. Callum Wallace

    All I’d say is that feminism should be re-named to equalism. All for equal rights, a stop to women being mistreated and abused, and viewed as lesser beings. But to de-muddle the waters, and to allow short sighted people to agree (and stop fools arguing against it), it should be equalism.

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  50. kajsagardetun

    Reblogged this on Kajsa Gardetun and commented:
    Har stört mig på taggen “women against feminism” ett bra tag nu. förstår inte hur någon, speciellt kvinnor kan neka att sexism fortfarande finns och att situationen inte måste förbättras. Tycker att det här inlägget förklarar bra varför feminism fortfarande behövs.

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