The year is 2014. You are a white Western woman. You wake up in the morning in a comfortably sized house or flat. You have a full or part-time job that enables you to pay your rent or mortgage. You have been to school and maybe even college or university as well. You can read and write and count. You own a car or have a driver’s licence. You have enough money in your own bank account to feed and clothe yourself. You have access to the Internet. You can vote. You have a boyfriend or girlfriend of your choosing, who you can also marry if you want to, and raise a family with. You walk down the street wearing whatever you feel like wearing. You can go to bars and clubs and sleep with whomever you want.
Your world is full of freedom and possibility.
Then you pick up a newspaper or go online. You read about angry women ranting about sexism and inequality. You see phrases like ‘rape-culture’ and ‘slut-shaming.’ You furrow your brow and think to yourself: ‘What are they so angry about? There is no such thing as sexism anymore.’
Now imagine this:
The year is 2013. You are a 25 year-old Pakistani woman. A few months ago, you married the man you love. A man you choose for yourself. You are also pregnant with his child. You see your life stretching out before you, filled with hope and happiness. Suddenly, you and your husband are dragged away from each other. You are both beaten with bricks and batons. You can’t fight back. You can’t escape. No one comes to help you. Through your fading vision, you look up, and look into the eyes of one of your assailants: into the eyes of your father.
The year is 2013. You are a 23 year-old Indian woman. You are a physiotherapy student with a promising career ahead of you. You are sitting on a private bus travelling home alone on a warm December evening. You gaze out of the window as the buildings of New Dheli rush past you and feel content. Suddenly, a blunt force hits the back of your head and you fall to the floor of the bus. A group of strange men are standing over you. They bring the metal bar down on you again and again and again until all you can taste is the blood filling up your mouth. You pray that you will die soon. And you do, but not then. You are raped, beaten, and tortured over and over again. Death is slow and agonising.
The year is 2014. You are a 13 year-old girl from Niger. You no longer live there though. You are now living in the neighbouring country Nigeria, sitting alone in small room on a small bed in a small apartment high above the city of Kano. You are not allowed to leave. Your stomach is swollen from the unwanted life growing inside of it. You had no choice. The father is a man in his 40s. He is a businessman. He has bought you as his wife. You were a penniless, uneducated girl when he came for you. You don’t know of any life you could have had. Neither did your family: just one less mouth for them to feed. You still have the body of a child, and it’s straining under the pressure from the one inside of you. You feel like you’re about to be split in two. You don’t wonder if you will survive the birth. A part of you doesn’t want to.
These are fictionalised accounts of real events that have happened to real women living in our world today. They follow the past 250 years of women and men campaigning for women to be given equal rights to men to prevent these kinds of injustices and abuses on the grounds of gender taking place. Over the course of this time, campaigners – Feminists, both female and male – have been locked up, beaten, tortured, and even killed, in the pursuit of equality. They did this with pen and ink and print; they did this with their voices; they did this with their bodies; they did this with art and music; they did in courts of law and halls and houses of government that they fought be to allowed into.
They did this so that women would no longer been seen as property, livestock, breeding machines, sex objects, punching bags, or infantile morons. They did this not just for themselves, but also for their daughters, and their daughters, and their daughters for generations to come. They did this for women they would never meet – women who lived across countries, across vast oceans, across the entire globe, and even across time.
They did this so that women like me – a white Western woman – could attend school and university; to learn to read, write, and think critically; to gain a degree; to get a job and be paid an equal salary to a man in the same position; and to sit here with my own computer and type all of this.
Feminism is a movement for freedom, equality, choice, love, compassion, respect, solidarity, and education. We may argue, we may disagree, we may struggle to understand the choices and perspectives of others sometimes, but these core beliefs of the movement have never changed, and they never will.
That is why I am a Feminist.
If you feel that you have so far lived your life unaffected by even the mildest form of sexism – anything from feeling uncomfortable when a man catcalls you in the street, to feeling scared walking home alone at night in a secluded area – and are treated with love and respect by every man in your life, then to you I say: I’m glad for you. If you don’t think you need feminism, then that is a victory for the movement. You have fulfilled all those dreams that every suffragette being force-fed in prison and every ‘witch’ burnt at the stake dreamed you would one day.
But perhaps take a second to consider the life of the Pakistani woman who was beaten to death by her own family for marrying a man of her choosing. Or the life of the Indian woman who was raped, beaten, and murdered on a bus by a gang of men. Or the life of the little girl in Niger who was sold to a man more than twice her own age and forced to carry a baby that may kill her to deliver. Do they still need feminism?
And perhaps take a second to consider this too: Even in our liberal, Western world, why do women still only fill 24% of senior management jobs? Why are more women than men domestically abused or even killed every week at the hands of their male partner or ex-partner? Why is there still a pay gap (in the UK specifically) of 15% for women doing the same jobs and working the same hours as men?
And what about on a cultural level? Have you ever noticed how comedy panel shows usually only have one female panellist compared to 4-5 male ones? That almost every dieting product on the market is solely aimed at women? How a lot of newspapers and advertising campaigns will use a sexualised or pornographic image of a woman to sell news or products that have nothing to do with sex?
Or perhaps on a personal level: Do you choose to wear certain clothes because you want to or because you feel ‘unfeminine’ if you don’t? Do you choose to cover yourself up because you want to or because you feel ashamed or intimidated by a man looking at your body? Do you shave your legs and underarm hair because you want to or because you will look ‘ugly’ if you don’t? Did you parents dress you in pink as a baby because they liked the colour or because you were born a girl? Do you want to have children because you want to or because you are a woman?
When you look at yourself in the mirror in the morning, do you see yourself through your own eyes, or through the eyes of the men that will look at you when you walk out the door?
The fact is, like it or not, you still live a world where gender matters. Where gender controls not just the entire course of your life – but the lives of women all over the world. Every second, a child will be born female in a country where she will persecuted for this random biological occurrence for the rest of her life. So before you hold up your anti-Feminist placard proudly and smile at your own sense of empowerment, think not what Feminism can do for you, but what it can do for that one girl. She needs someone to stand up for her. That someone could be you.
UPDATE: Click here to read my follow up to this article: ‘Equalism: The Feminist Alternative?’
This is a response to ‘Women Against Feminism’ groups on Tumblr and Facebook.
The stories of the women mentioned in this post were sourced from these sites:
Other facts and statistics were sourced from here:
1,408 thoughts on “A Response to ‘Women Against Feminism.’”
Beautifully constructed counter-argument. Posted it on FB page.
Reblogged this on Citizens, not serfs.
Well put. Women’s rights are human rights.
Sexim still exist and is sometimes widely promoted through extreme feminism, thats why equality is still a on going war in this day and age. Women against feminism is a interesting movement, because that movement doesnt attack the normal kind of feminism , they attack the ones that are going into a war against men, meaning if you are not female you are evil , thats what women against feminism stand for, I admit they might not be going at it the smartest way but I support their motives , why ? Its simple because they want equality. I am not considering myself a feminist nor do I am against it , I want equality for everyone, not just for women or man, but for every gender.
This stance, then, also comes from a very white-privileged, narrow view of the world.
1. How many of the feminist movement are purely in it because they “hate men”? That is such an outdated, sexist stereotype, and it’s grossly overstated. The majority are fighting for YOUR rights, for everyone’s rights – women and, yes, men, too.
2. Do you think the three women in this article (and the millions in the same boat) give a damn whether a feminist hates men or not as long as she fights also for equal rights for them? Do you think they have time to give a damn?
The world is divided enough without further narrow-minded, childish divisions among women. We need to work together for the good of the entire planet of women (the article’s point).
1) I am not white
2) What privileges do I have? Lets check them shall we ?
First of all I am a male , that means in my country that I have to bring the income to my family and being the oldest son I had to start working at a younger age to provide my family with money. Indeed I was lucky to be a young basketball talent and got some money from it and didn’t have to work to part time in the kitchen or as a waiter.
3) The feminist movement is dieing currently, its not hate towards men only, its hate towards everyone that doesnt accept the superiority of women compared to man.
4) How can someone fight for equal rights and in the same time destroy the other gender, seems a bit impossible dont you think?
5) The only thing I agree with you is that you should be united, but you never will be because of the simple fact that most of those who fight the good fight and who want equality dont do anything about that fact and they rather go and write on their blogs how the world is unfair to all women while sitting comfortable in her own place with internet and food .
Simply put feminists destroy their own movement.
In my opinion, such thing as an ‘extreme feminism’ doesn’t exist. Just as there are men who hate women, there are women who hate men. These women just like to call themselves feminists and it is up to us real feminists (people who want gender equality) to recognise them and ignore them.
These ‘women against feminism’ are hurtful for the cause because they attack on the word ‘feminism’, which in my opinion needs to be feminine as long as there are women in the world who are not considered equal to men by the law. To have equal rights for all genders should be everyone’s focus. (sorry for my english, I hope you got my point)
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I agree on you on that one , thats why I said that I dont want to label myself as a feminist . I want equality but I don’t want to be associated with people who pretend to want equality but want actually only the good things from the other gender. Don’t get me wrong I don’t hate the real feminists, and I am happy that you are saying that you are one and I am even more delighted that you didn’t attack or insult me as it happened to often on my tumblr blog. Now my point for now is that the first impression is a horrible one for the feminist movement , its sad but true, but its not only them, every movement is judged right now, from the GamerGate to the Social Justice Warriors, there are good people and bad people in both groups but the difference is who represents them and how they act . We take that representative and create a stereotype modeled by it . In my mind the right thing to do is to let the bad seeds inside of our groups die out by us , the bloggers and normal people showing them why it is wrong to harass other just because they have a different opinion.
Thank you for your reply and your English is great. I hope you keep fighting the good fight and one day we might see a world where everyone is equal. Now to the women against feminism, the reason it started to exist is because of those bad seeds inside of the movement, if it hasn’t been for some wrong people doing things the wrong way I think “women against feminism” wouldn’t exist. Now I know it might feel offensive but think about it from their prospective, they might felt offended by someone who considered themselves a feminist, therefore they had a bad image of the whole movement. It is a bit idiotic, that’s true but that’s how we humans are , the first impression might be the most important.
Thank you again for replying in a polite manner 🙂 You give me hope that there are a lot more good feminists than bad .
Reblogged this on The End and commented:
Blogging, in its highest form, is a conversation. Last week, I wrote a post expressing my own sadness and anger that I live in country which talks about freedom and equality… but too often does not walk that walk. A woman named Lisa clicked the ‘like’ button on my post. That led me to her blog, where I discovered this post that she had chosen to reblog.
We do not have to be white to understand the injustices suffered by people of color. We do not have to be female to understand the injustices suffered by women and girls. We do not have to be lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender to understand the injustices suffered by members of the queer community. We already possess the only attribute needed to understand each other’s challenges: we are all human. Once you and I understand the injustices we all face, the only thing left for us to do is to act humanely toward each other. It is no coincidence that all of the world’s faith traditions share one most basic tenet: Treat others as you want to be treated. What could be simpler? Easier? Less controversial?
I share this post with you because it speaks to the importance of looking beyond ourselves. I am not a woman, but I am a feminist. What about you?
I enjoyed your thoughts, found this post through a reblog.
Question for you: The three fictionalized real life examples you cite are, to my mind, rooted in religious views on woman. Equality has surged foreword in places where religion has taken a backseat to secularism. I’m a gay American expat living in Japan and the freedom I feel around me is liberating (which is why I’ve chosen to live here). So, to your mind do you feel the prejudice women experience has it’s root in older traditions, such as religion?
A lot of these issues indeed have their roots in religion, like many other issues (gay rights, racism). Since the early 20th century people have slowly been letting go these moral standards, but as in most cases in history, this is a slow process. We can speed this up by raising awareness, but it’s still a lot of hard work. But yes, you are completely right, a lot of this stuff has to do with religion.
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Jhan1969, I’m sure you’ve heard of cause and effect. People who classify themselves as white have caused unspeakable harm to other peoples around the globe for centuries. That strategy of destroying the other because of a deep-rooted fear of annihilation, or of becoming extinct — a fear based on the recessive gene of people who classify themselves as white — is still being used through the proliferation of guns, war, drugs, theft, pillaging and brainwashing.
Presently, people who classify themselves as white now make up only one-tenth of the world’s population and still contrive in concertation — women who classify themselves as white included — to control, demean and destroy the other nine-tenths the world’s population so as not to become absorbed by it. Therefore, keeping those statistics in mind, who, or what, do you think is going to win — and in the not so distant future? The answer, of course, is melanin.
White people are guilty, and it’s all because of racism. Period, end of story. Anything else, and you’re a bigot.
This is the firmly held, unshakeable, lefty, po-mo, post-colonialist worldview. President Obama is a great example of that. That’s why one of the first things he did after he was elected the 1st time was fly to the Middle East on an apology tour, talking about how America did ‘bad things’ too. It’s not that he sees the world in a ‘balanced’ way. He thinks America actually IS bad. Why? ‘Cause WHITE PEOPLE founded it. Again: White people are guilty, end of story.
You know, people like you are SO arrogant and condescending. You think the rest of us know NOTHING about history. That we’re all walking around in some kind of false consciousness. That YOU are the great revealers of truth. SPARE ME. You’re a bunch of ideologues. You cannot, for a minute, question your own ideas, because to do so would send you into an existential crisis.
You cannot get out of the leftist paradigm for even a second, because to you, it’s GOSPEL TRUTH.
I’m a white guy. What have I EVER done to oppress people of different ethnic backgrounds? NOTHING. But according to you, I’m guilty just because I’m white. The entire white world is guilty. Never mind that EVERY SINGLE CULTURE, EVERY SINGLE ETHNIC GROUP ON THIS PLANET, has committed atrocities, and some of them pretty bad. If you actually studied HISTORY, you’d know this. If you’d read something besides Howard Zinn and Noam Chomsky and Cornel West, you’d know this.
But you CAN’T, because your ideology is more important.
And it’s that ideology that’s keeping black people back – keeping them in PERMANENT VICTIMHOOD.
You’re NOT teaching black people that they CAN fight their way out of poverty. That they CAN better their circumstances. What you ARE teaching them is that because of slavery, they are PERMANENTLY damaged goods. You’ve destroyed the black family by replacing it with GOVERNMENT. You’ve destroyed black life by allowing it to be taken over by hip-hop culture.
I can go on and on . . .
YOU claim to be the intelligent masters of ‘nuance’ and complexity. You claim to know it all, but you know NOTHING. All you know is a static, never-changing notion of ‘White people are oppressors, and everyone else is oppressed.’ An ideology of RESENTMENT and HATE.
The truth of the matter is: Slavery happened. There’s nothing anyone can do about it now. Black people have to look back, deal with the history emotionally and intellectually, and MOVE THE F__K ON, like every other group of people in history.
Black people need to get UN-STUCK, but you won’t let them. You NEED to keep them down, because successful people don’t need an ideology of resentment and anger. That wouldn’t serve your purpose at all. You NEED to keep black people balkanized in their own dysfunctional culture, or else your ideology just doesn’t work.
That’s why ANY black person who disagrees with the standard, leftist view of race is deemed a ‘sellout’ or an ‘Uncle Tom.’ Intellectual fascism is a REQUIREMENT of leftist ideology.
And the ‘rest of us,’ including quite a few black people, are getting sick of it.
Jhan1969, it is you who sound angry and resentful, which is no way to participate in debate; have you asked yourself why you sound so bellicose?
It is true that all ethnic groups have committed atrocities, as you say. But only those who classify themselves as white have developed a system in which they have oppressed others by pillaging their natural resources and using their free labour to amass incredible wealth. This greed is motivated by fear of extinction.
It is also true that the oppressed can fight back and take control of their lives — and will do so once they stop drinking the Kool-Aid of those who classify themselves as white. Once they become properly educated, are provided good schools and teachers and wider access to high-paying jobs they will be better equipped to choose healthier lifestyles and move on, as you say.
The Hip-Hop industry that you mentioned, like the gun and drug warfare industries, benefits those who perpetuate this racist system and those executives who reap the greatest rewards from them. When these young people wake up and realise that these industries are designed to keep them hemmed up in poor neighbourhoods, designed to send them to jail and continue being a source of free labour, and designed to ultimately kill them, they will continue to meet resistance from those lucrative industries.
But they will certainly one day take control of their lives because the debate continues, and because soon everyone on this planet will be brown.
Dude, no one is saying that you personally are guilty of doing bad things to black folks or what have you – what we’re saying is that there is a systematic oppression of black folks (or other POC or gay folks, trans folks, women, etc) by white, straight, upper class cis folks – a SYSTEMATIC oppression, and by doing nothing, we (as the group that benefits) are allowing it to continue. It doesn’t always exist on a personal, individual level, but it does on a national scale, and that is what we’re discussing.
“there is a systematic oppression of black folks (or other POC or gay folks, trans folks, women, etc) by white, straight, upper class cis folks”
And I’m saying, NO THEY’RE ISN’T. And we will never agree on this, which is why these debates are worthless. Black culture needs to drop it’s VICTIM STATUS and move on. Black conservative intellectuals say this all the time, and they’re branded Uncle Toms for doing so because the Left will accept no other viewpoint but it’s own.
The world is full of non-western ethnic groups that have suffered terribly in the past. And yet, when those non-western ethnic groups move to western countries, they are highly successful within one or two generations. Black people need to DO WHAT THESE PEOPLE ARE DOING, and stop complaining.
Koreans immigrate to America and work 70 hours a week, live in near penury, and then wind up sending their kids to ivy league schools. Are they clamoring for handouts and government largesse? NO. They just come here and bust their asses, like my grandparents and parents did. They go to school, work hard, and follow the rules.
And they don’t have 2 or 3 kids out of wedlock by 2 different fathers.
I don’t like supporting someone else’s illegitimate kids, just like I don’t bailing out greedy investment bankers. BOTH things suck to me. BOTH things are just someone’s hands in my pockets. There comes a point where people have to take care of their own business and leave me the F__K alone already.
There. That’s the attitude of most white, middle class Americans. AND black Americans that make it to the middle class. Black middle class people don’t like supporting someone else’s illegitimate kids any more than white people do.
Go ahead and call me a racist. That’s what you people love to do.
First I’m not white, I’m a native, South American descendant women.
Second: you’re a fanatic.
What kind of education you receive ?. These completely ignoring all non-white empires that have existed. Do you think we were some kind of fairy hippies ?, us were constantly at war and we sacrificed children to the gods, we were not a poor creatures. Yeah, whites committed many bad things but blaming whites today so your great great grandfather may have committed … is simply fanatic.
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Women against feminism rule!
Your an idiot at the least and at the worst a bigot. Did you even read this? Do you have a daughter, sister, mother??
bigots and idiots rule!
See, this is the sort of thing that turns people away from feminism. The moment someone declares an opinion that doesn’t go well in the feminist’s eyes is the moment the feminist starts bashing them for being an idiot and sexist.
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Imagine you’re that western woman and you have time to think about such things and you quickly see right through the feminist propaganda machine. You might, naturally, conclude that feminism in the west is pure BS. You’d be right.
Then the typical feminist trick of trying to hide behind 3rd world women that modern western feminists really couldn’t care less about and are doing nothing for. Also, almost every anti-feminist I’ve ever seen says that such women could probably use some feminism.
Some stuff about how western feminists were abused, all unsubstantiated and even if you produced evidence, it’s actually quite beside the point. What IS the ponit? Well, if you’d read the posts and open your brain a bit, you’d understand. Instead, you choose to defend your little religion.
“Feminism is a movement for freedom, equality, choice, love, compassion, respect, solidarity, and education.”
—ah, you obviously have no clue what you’re talking about. Equality? Explain why the modern feminists couldn’t care less about the original ERA. Explain so many things but, of course, being a feminist, you have no honest explanations.
Then you ignore the fact that many of these WAF’s have said that they HAVE experienced sexism and are still against feminism. You also seem to be ignoring that their experience pretty much nulls the existence of this ‘patriarchy’ that oppresses women for the hell of it.
Then some more irrelevant stuff about 3rd world women, irrelevant to this discussion at least, unless western feminists plan on DOING something to help those women instead of just exploiting their suffering to justify bitching about the Blurred Lines video.
Then you ignore that it’s possible that men and women make different choices b/c of oh, I don’t know, biology? Evolution maybe?
Then a sweeping statement about ‘domestic abuse’ being a gendered crime. Perhaps but honestly, I’m not inclined to take your word for anything since so far lying seems to be stock and trade for feminists.
Then the wage gap bit, ignoring the fact that they could be because of choices and, in any case, your accusation of sexism hasn’t been proven. Or even well supported.
Then you start fishing for something on a cultural level or personal level, basically, at this point, it feels like you’re begging WAF to be feminists. Well, ‘no means no’.
“The fact is, like it or not, …”
—then you talk down to them like YOU know the score and they’re all a bunch of idiots.
If I wasn’t an anti-feminist before your post, I’d probably be one AFTER reading it.
Joe, you sound very ignorant. The only thing I will encourage you to do is conduct research about the many western organizations, many women-run, helping third world country women around the world. I was thrilled to be a part of one in my little corner of the world in Denver called Building Bridges. It brought together teenage girls from Israel, Palestine, and America for an intensive leadership program. Imagine the good that organization does. Unlike you, they put their actions where their mouths are.
What have you done for women being oppressed around the world, Joe?
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Reblogged this on Home is where the heart is and commented:
No matter how bad your problems are, or who caused them, you can’t overcome them by blaming other people. Other people might’a caused your problems, or you might’a caused them yourself. But YOU are the only one that can solve them.
Instead of empowering black people, the leftist intelligentsia keeps them in a perpetual victim state. Black culture is like an un-recovered trauma victim; stuck in PAIN mode. It has not learned how to look back, deal with the emotional pain of what happened, heal from it, and then move forward. It’s like a person who’s been stuck in therapy for ten years re-hashing the same painful experience over and over again, with no one to teach them how to truly heal.
Why? Because the leftist intelligentsia WANTS black culture wounded. If black people really do rise up and overcome, they WON’T NEED the left’s victim narrative anymore. It won’t need the perpetual anger and resentment, because happy people DON’T NEED THAT SHIT.
The leftist intelligentsia would be out of a job. And that’s what this is really all about.
You have s___bag hyppcrites like Michael Eric Dyson, who promotes Tupac Shakur as the apex of black culture. UNBELIEVABLE. Like there’s NO ONE better than a twice convicted sex offender to offer black boys as a role model. Forget all the black people who fought their way up from nothing and became contributing citizens. Forget the doctors, lawyers, inventors, scientists, authors . . . meanwhile, Dyson enjoys HIS privileged position in the WHITE ACADEMY, with his six figure salary and book deals. Just like Cornell West, who goes around preaching Marxist tripe and encouraging cultural balkanization for black people, and gets paid thousands of dollars per lecture from WHITE PEOPLE for his troubles.
And black kids from the projects who like to read, do their homework, and work hard are accused of trying to be WHITE. As if failure SHOULD = blackness. As if learning how to speak correctly and be civil means you’re some kind of house servant. Never mind that’s what we’re ALL SUPPOSED TO LEARN. All of us.
The left purposely keeps black people balkanized from the rest of America so that they can control them. And anyone who disagrees with the left is immediately branded as a RACIST. Any black person who disagrees with them is immediately branded an Uncle Tom, by black people who spend most of their time in WHITE CULTURE!!
But go ahead and lecture me about history, as if I never would have known anything had YOU not told me. Talk about slavery like I never read a history book. Tell me about Native Americans, like I had NO IDEA AT ALL. Then maybe I can tell YOU that no person ever got out of their troubles with someone’s foot on their neck.
And that foot belongs to the intellectual left. The insane, addle-brained Marxists who don’t actually know how to DO ANYTHING in this world, except stubbornly view the world through their own paradigm. The people who see the world as they WANT TO SEE IT, and not how it truly is. The people who do everything they can to destroy the family, the church, and any other place where black people get any kind of meaningful lessons about life. All for THEIR illusory dreams of how things should be.
The left MUST give up its hegemony over the debate on race. It MUST let in other viewpoints. it MUST be willing to hear things it doesn’t want to hear. Otherwise we’ll be stuck in the same s__t forever. Black kids shooting each other in the streets of Chicago. An 80% minority prison population. The left has controlled ideas about race since the 60’s, and WHERE THE F__K HAS IT GOTTEN US?? Mostly in a big pile of s__t. And yet, they keep on doing the same things over and over again, as if somehow, it’s gonna be different this time around.
A few weeks ago, a young black female employee helped me out in an AT&T store. She was friendly, articulate, and helpful. It was a nice experience. I left that store thinking that if she went on that way, maybe went to school at night and got her associate’s degree or maybe even a BA, she could become a district manager. Maybe become head of sales for a whole region. Maybe work her way up to a C-level corporate job. Maybe have a family and get out of the projects. I saw good things in that girl’s future. And I know how hard she has it, surrounded by a culture that tells her she’s SUPPOSED to be a victim, and not an empowered young black woman on the rise.
Of course, since the lefty moonbats who are REALLY in charge of ‘The Academy’ hate capitalism and the ‘American Dream’ to begin with, they DON’T WANT that girl to get ahead. They WANT to see black culture fail so they can try and replace it with whatever psychotic scheme they have. And in that scheme, who do you think they want in charge?
As long as the black leftist intelligentsia gets THEIR paychecks. As long as liberal democrats get THEIR votes, then it’s all good, right??
Jhan1969, Certainly you have had “nice” experiences with other “friendly, articulate and helpful” “black females” than the one you mentioned. But for the sake of argument, let’s say you haven’t. But why even in the latter hypothesis would you deduce that the young woman in question is not already enrolled in school? And why would you suggest that she should limit her goals to an “associate degree or maybe even a BA”? Why should you decide that she should limit her career goals to becoming “district manager” or “head of sales for a whole region”? Why should she, according to your limited vision for her, stop at “a C-Level corporate job”?
Why do you believe she lives in “the projects”? Did she indicate to you that she did?. Why could you not imagine her earning a PhD in Law or Economics and going on to become CEO of a corporation or President of the United States, for example? With a little imagination on your part, I believe you could see even better things in her future than what you propose for her. To “know how hard she has it”, as you say you do, you would have to live in her shoes, surrounded by misogyny, discrimination, racism and people from every other group in society reminding her how far she cannot go, and that she should be satisfied with “C-Level” accomplishment. Of course she doesn’t have to listen to them, or to you, and may become just as empowered as some men and women with the same qualifications as she will have added to her resume after earning that PhD. May she work her way to the very top — and hopefully earn the same pay for the same job as all her male and female colleagues earn.
“But for the sake of argument, let’s say you haven’t. But why even in the latter hypothesis would you deduce that the young woman in question is not already enrolled in school? And why would you suggest that she should limit her goals to an “associate degree or maybe even a BA”? Why should you decide that she should limit her career goals to becoming “district manager” or “head of sales for a whole region”? Why should she, according to your limited vision for her, stop at “a C-Level corporate job”
Are you even for REAL?? While you’re sprouting all this nonsense and trying to prove that somehow, I just HAVE to be a racist (because being a white male, I can’t be anything but), I’ll be writing a letter to her district manager to tell them how professional and courteous and efficient this young woman is. I’ll be doing something CONCRETE to try and help her, while YOU flap around desperately to come up with some half-baked literary conceit to prove that I hate black people.
You know, I think I’ll start that letter right now. If you want, I can sign it ‘White guy who was really impressed by your black employee.’ That’ll prove I’m a racist, so you don’t have to work at that anymore.
And C-Level means the TOP. As in global VP, CEO, ‘person-who-runs-shit.’ Do some research before you go tiring yourself out.
Jhan1969, So now youre name-calling in one of the most derogatory manners, aren’t you? Firstly, it is you who classify yourself as white; and no, I do not believe everyone who classifies themselves as white hates Africans or people of African origin. So just sign your letter with your name so that you don’t sound suspect.
Lastly, noting that you wrote that the young woman might one day obtain “some C-Level position” I just wanted to remind you that we could encourage her to go all the way to the top and become CEO. But I should have said Chairwoman of the Board or President of the United States.
Do you think she could break that glass ceiling as well as Hillary, Sir?
Fuckin, A’ man. Just call all white people racists. That’s what you want to do.
I’m done here. Unsubscribed. You people are losers.
Aw! Jhan1969, Giving up and ending communication is no way to advance understanding. All you have to do is stop the name-calling, and I’ll look forward to reading your points of view. No one is wrong all the time, and everyone is sometimes correct in her or his assumptions. And you are far from being a loser.
Reblogged this on Byzantine Lipstick.
I agree with all except one minor detail.
I don’t (and know other girls don’t) walk out the door worrying about what men are going to think of what I look like. It’s the women that I (and others) find are most judgemental on that front.
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I have thought for a long time that there is a global jihad against women…. and its getting worse. To all these dolts I say, “Why aren’t you fucking a man if you hate women so much?” Really… think about it.
Reblogged this on Erase and Rewind. and commented:
Ja. Und: ja. Ja.
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Doesn’t it seem revealing that this could have been a real conversation that was then overrun by angry white men reacting? You may be arguing against it, angry white men, but your need to dominate the comments section ended up proving the author’s point. Congrats!
” . . . a real conversation that was then overrun by angry white men . . .”
The inability of the left to think beyond identity politics will spell the ruin of our culture.
why are we angry WHITE men?
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Eastern and Western feminism are different things. Eastern feminism wants their societies to be more equal and fair for everyone involved.
Western feminism, today, is nothing more than “lol male tears”, bitching and raving about how guys sit on the bus, and how a man holding a door open for a woman is some “aggressive symbol that he expects sex”. And then y’all try to hide behind Eastern feminism and proclaim it to be the same thing.
Honestly, given that women in the western world generally get treated better– Crying sexism whenever someone disagrees and causing a scandal, child custody favoring them, and tell me the last time you heard of a female rapist or female domestic abuser getting the same punishment as a male one? Hell, female-on-male domestic abuse is “comedy gold” on a lot of trashy sitcoms.
Not to mention the schoolyard mentality of “ew boys they have cooties” that pretty much a lot of arguments boil down to.
But hey, avoiding talking about the ACTUAL problems in your “movement” (can it be called a movement if it’s stagnated for so long, it’s rotting in places?) is what western feminists do best. You know, when they aren’t taking creepshots of how some guy sits on the bus while there’s a gazillion empty seats around him.
Inb4 I’m called male even though I’m a woman
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I think you are missing the sexism in your own country. Check out realsexism.com and educate yourself.
There is so much to count on the side of privilege, and good fortune. The space, and time we find, or design our life in is often not a choice…but, a circumstance.
I’m not sure I completely agree with your argument. As a female who believes in equality of all genders, race, and religions, I do consider myself a feminist of the conventional sort, with regards to its original message. I do believe women have the rights to their own body and that ‘body shaming’ is an archaic societal norm that both men endorse and women actual encourage. (Ever pick up a women’s magazine in a while? There is more half-naked women in a fashion magazine than GQ). Women Against Feminism, while not necessarily going about it the right way, argues against targeting and pointing complete blame at the opposite gender. They admit their part and take a more rational and realistic approach to equality. Additionally, they make a stand against the extremist feminist view that stay at home moms are a slight against everything the feminist movement worked for. That just because a woman chooses to remain in what was viewed as traditional gender roles that she isn’t dismantling a century of progress. There are a lot of inherent errors with the feminism movement, which I believe has clouded its prior intentions and sullies its reputation.
Regardless of that, I feel that your argument about the inequality of women in other cultures might be a bit far-fetch in assuming that the ‘white first world women should fight and impress our beliefs on another culture because we ourselves have since surmounted our oppression’. Do I agree with crime against women? No. Do I believe that culture should override anyone’s human rights? No. However, first world nation interference in second or third world nation affairs tends to have a habit of causing more internal strife and problems, especially for those who want to take a stand in their own country. Culturally, these societies are govern by societal laws which are very different than our own. This complicates the equality movement. Ignorantly imposing our stance on them will only cause extreme resistance. There isn’t a single event in history that argues against this. If change is going to happen, it has to happen within, without direct outside influence or else this change will yet again be dismantled once interference/Western-world support is removed. In the western world, feminism allowed women to vote, join the work force, become respected members of society, but this was do in part to the need of women to sustain the economy while men went to war in the 1900s. We had voices and we had legitimate stance to show our value and why we were important members of society. Women in the cultures mention above have not had this chance due to the structure of their society and their history. It’s important we keep this in mind when address international affairs.
There are feminist movements in each country and each organization will do whatever it deems appropriate in your country (and from experience honestly not much), is the existence of women’s issues in Third World countries justifies the existence of feminism in America and first world countries ?, no, do not for one simple reason, American feminists do not give a shit about our problems, we use to justify themselves but are not helping us at all, not self deceived.
Everything else is a rant about gender roles in the first world (as if men were not victims of it too) but no evidence of that dreaded patriarchy.
Doing so drastic assertion without any kind of source, such as that women are the majority of those killed by their partners, all you discover on the subject was an older study (found nothing more recent) but states that 22.81 % of murders were committed by men against their partner (or ex), while 31.4% were committed by a woman against her partner (or ex).
Since no sources put the claim on the wage gap, look on my own on a wage gap as you claim and found nothing.
Modern feminism is useless in the first world, they are a lot of people who love to complain mostly about trifles and are not even able to pose a solution. A movement that does not help solve the problems of which complaint is a useless movement.
Finally it makes me laugh the first assertion about “if you’re a white western woman”, the most western feminists are white middle-class women.
What comprises the bulk of this reply is mostly from a reply I left elsewhere. Most of it, I hope, is relevant to the discussion. But, regarding the need of feminism in one country, one context, or one culture as a valid response to problems in other countries is quite problematic. Indeed, human rights violations are appalling, especially when it results in clear harm. But it is troubling to say the least to believe that the values of the west, especially the US, can easily be transferred to peoples whose worldviews, cultures, and values are quite different than our own. To be fair, they may look at us as and our culture as peculiar. I am a teacher, and have had several Muslim women in my class, for example, who wear full burqa. They all are puzzled by the presumption that this is a problem and is oppressive. Rather, they seem to find meanings in their attire that are beyond the analysis we typically offer, don’t see it to be related to the oppression of men. While we can spin theories to counter their claim, I can’t see that as being good, and more or less smacks of Eurocentrism or, what Edward Said refers to as the mysterious oriental “other” that could use some good Western/American reform. And while there are more serious issues facing people from other cultures than attire, one wonders if our theories, so laden as they are with our own epistemological biases, are valid in this context. In short, the phenomena of Anglo/American feminism is just that — an ideology with unique roots, but which believes itself to be universally applicable. Even so, that it is met with such vehement resistance by many if not most Americans (e.g. the statistics that report that most people distance themselves from feminist theory) won’t be a good selling point for these other people. Where feminism does show up in countries like Iran or China, for example, it rings of a most older and nobler brand of equity feminism that does in fact have solid ground of rational support, But the ideological kind that whines about oppression and victimization from a supposed secret and organized society known as the patriarchy (I must not be a good “man” since I never got the invite), and which nitpicks about misinterpretations of cultural force is for all of these legitimate problems one thought too many.
Below is from the post I spoke of which hopefully clarifies some of what I just said above.
While the Women Against Feminism movement often speaks equally as passionately as do many feminists, what they have pointed out to great effect is the difference between meaning and use. Appealing to pithy definitions to debunk or defend feminism is disingenuous. Our language more often follows patterns of use, not normalizing definitions. But even more it is how things show up in the world and how those things are lived that really matters. Feminism is by no means one narrowly defined enterprise, and, frankly, that which all brands of feminism may have in common is but a small part of what I can see among the different notions of its meaning. Perhaps distinctions such as equity feminism and gender feminism are on to something, where the former mostly pertains to legal and civil issues, while the latter is fueled by ideology and is more often than not worthy of criticism. Most folks would support equity feminism, and while gender feminism is in a minority it is also the most vocal and divisive, and really hasn’t done much for women.
But these distinctions are also fueled by epistemological and political ideals that ignore other possibilities to their own detriment. Ideas of rights and equality are products of enlightenment thinking, and while they have done great things, the mode in which they must operate is at odds with greater modes in which we organize our collective existence. Equality as an abstraction of political organization is perfect for thinking through such issues as the most basic and fundamental problems of human and political rights. But when we veer into more intimate circles it looses meaning. This is something that even feminists thinkers agree on, and resulted in such things as care ethics. Equality and rights theories rely upon each instance of a thing to be irreducible to a group in which is participates. There are men and there are women, for instance. Never mind the rhetoric that tries to group gender into a larger heading of human. But the main issue I am trying to get across is that these theories — gender feminism being a clear expression thereof — sees people and not persons. Singularity, situation, and relation have been stripped away, and replaced with a static and generic “view from nowhere”. I argue that if, in our intimate relations within the family, we left behind the discourse of rights and equality and replaced it with harmony and relational virtuosity the results would be different. Here the relation is prior to the the people in relation. Whereas rights and equality is analytic and largely binary (right or wrong, true or false), the language of relation is organic and seeks harmony as a primary goal. What it considers as valuable is only that which promotes the structure that is supports. I see and have experienced brands of feminism to be hopelessly at odds with this. As driven by ideology and fueled by analytic rhetoric it is a closed system that finds what it seeks everywhere, whether it be putative oppression, victimization, wacky theories about patriarchy, all without considering contexts, history and so on.
Last and briefly, the canards of non-equal pay and so forth are woefully lacking other considerations. Every place I have worked has a generic pay scale that doesn’t bother with gender. These largely misrepresent the facts and the contexts that are important for a greater understanding, and do more to promote misdirected anger than otherwise. If anything, why don’t we look at employment and pay scale as primarily a class problem rather than a gender one?
There is no question that equal rights for women was a major problem, but those battles — the important political ones — have been thankfully won. Men and women both have unique obstacles, and the causes and cures for these may be deeply buried in long standing cultural practices. Nevertheless, I don’t think that greater division, more special interests groups around large-scale cultural structures, and ideology driven scholarship are the best responses. I am more likely to empathize with women I don’t know based upon my relationship with my mother, spouse, or relatives than because of scholarship that brings me into some wider group of men, many with whom I share very little.
And what have you done to help women in the 3rd world lately?
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I’m afraid I’m not any kind of expert at using WordPress as I’ve only been using it for about a year! I would suggest maybe changing the layout template you’re using if you can and experimenting with what looks best on your phone, or having a look through WordPress’ FAQ for help.
If you’re really stuck then just post a question to a forum or send an email to the WordPress staff. I’ve emailed WordPress for help in the past and they got back to me really quickly and solved my problem.
Hope that helps!
“Feminism is a movement for freedom, equality, choice, love, compassion, respect, solidarity, and education”
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Reblogged this on littlewonder2.
In my country many self-proclaimed feminist make a ruckus when a man makes a sexist comment or gender-neutral language or some other shit. But when a femaled politician called a female TV presenter “stupid blonde” nobody complained. And when such tragedies happen in third world countries these feminists are mute. The only female public figures I see condemning these events are conservative women (some journalists or politician). Leftist women who bitch about “male opression” don’t give a damn about third world women.
Liar liar, pants on fire. First of all, research shows employers in the west still want male job candidates over females. Women’s education doesn’t pay off that good. They are still forced to take up jobs that have nothing to do with their degrees. Research also shows that schools discourage girls from going in science. Third, its mainly the single moms who are living below poverty line. Because of the way the feminists have changed the society, young girls are forced to accept rape and majority even don’t recognize sexual assault. Its about time feminists learn that copying male whores is not a sign of freedom and smartness. Objectification of women has skyrocketed because of feminism. In reality, you hate women and you want to burden them so that they cannot excel and their kids die a slow torturous death.
Single, urban women in America are now out-earning their male counterparts. You can go on facts, or you can follow whatever ideological narrative affirms your own identity. Your choice.
Single women now out-number males in college degrees, and are the largest group of home buyers after married couples.
Again . . . your choice. Stick to the lefty victim-narrative, or get with reality.
“Research also shows that schools discourage girls from going in science.”
There is absolutely no empirical evidence of this. None. ZERO. In fact, many universities are doing whatever they can to actively RECRUIT women into the hard sciences. If women don’t want to make that choice, it’s THEIR CHOICE.
“Third, its mainly the single moms who are living below poverty line.”
No one is holding a gun to anyone’s heads and forcing them to have out-of-wedlock children. Again . . . THEIR CHOICE.
What you want is a world where women get to make their own choices, but the results are EVERYONE ELSE’S responsibility. Typical lefty BS.
“Objectification of women has skyrocketed because of feminism.”
I agree that objectification of women has risen, but NOT because of feminism. It’s because of a sex-obsessed LIBERAL CULTURE. Look at the entertainment industry: COMPLETELY RUN BY LIBERALS. They promoted an ‘anything goes’ culture, and that’s what we got. Happy now? When there are no rules, people will do whatever they want.
It’s called REALITY.
I see it in NYC every day. Parents walking around with their 13 year old daughters with shorts that say ‘porn-star’ on them. pre-teen girls dressed like hookers. It makes me ILL. Childhood has disappeared. It’s straight into FILTH now. No more innocence.
It’s the failure of the Age of Aquarius mentality. And yet, lib/lefties think they have all the answers.
Go away and let the grown-ups take over.
Women have it great in America, and they to quit f__ing whining. That’s what I think. You wanted careers? YOU GOT ‘EM.
Now shut the f__k up and go to work.